Do you believe in the rapture?

[Fritz Kobus]

Not at all. The theory from men's doctrines that Christ's Olivet discourse was about the time back in 70 A.D. is a HUGE MYTH.

Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Matthew 23:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

These verse bracket what happened in and leading up to 70 AD, while "this generation" of Jesus day still was alive.

 

[SetFree]

Scripture teaches ONE return of the Lord. You teach two returns.

Wrong; I only teach ONE future coming of Christ Jesus to gather His Church. The Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Scripture are ALL about the SAME event and day of Christ's future return immediately AFTER... the "great tribulation" as written.

But by your own words you reveal you aren't sure when His future return is according to the Signs of the End He gave. Instead, you show you are more interested in following agendas of men instead of written Bible Scripture.

 

[1689Dave]

Wrong; I only teach ONE future coming of Christ Jesus to gather His Church. The Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 Scripture are ALL about the SAME event and day of Christ's future return immediately AFTER... the "great tribulation" as written.

But by your own words you reveal you aren't sure when His future return is according to the Signs of the End He gave. Instead, you show you are more interested in following agendas of men instead of written Bible Scripture.

Wrong, you teach two returns of Christ. One at the rapture and another on the last day. Scripture places the rapture on the last day after the resurrection.

 

[Lamb]

I already showed you, but your spiritual ears and eyes God has closed. You will have to pray to Him to ask Him to open your spiritual eyes and ears to His Word.

Please don't make posts personal.

 

[SetFree]

Please don't make posts personal.

Then people here should not call me a LIAR by saying I said things I did not.

 

[SetFree]

Wrong, you teach two returns of Christ. One at the rapture and another on the last day. Scripture places the rapture on the last day after the resurrection.

Nowhere... have I ever said any such idea. By that you are calling me a LIAR, and that is... PERSONAL.

I have repeatedly proclaimed Christ's ONLY future coming to gather His saints to be AFTER the tribulation at the end of this world, AS WRITTEN in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, WHICH YOU REFUSE TO ADDRESS. Why... do you REFUSE to address those Scriptures?

 

[1689Dave]

Nowhere... have I ever said any such idea. By that you are calling me a LIAR, and that is... PERSONAL.

If Christ returns for the Rapture. And then returns at the end of the world, even Jethro Bodine can cipher that as being two returns.

 

[SetFree]

Scripture teaches ONE return of the Lord. You teach two returns.

As I have said, you are telling a LIE by that, as I have NEVER said any such idea.

I am Post-trib, and that means I believe in Christ's future ONE TIME coming to gather His Church AFTER the "great tribulation" He showed that is for the END of this world.

Thus you need to apologize for your bearing FALSE WITNESS against me.

 

[1689Dave]

As I have said, you are telling a LIE by that, as I have NEVER said any such idea.

I am Post-trib, and that means I believe in Christ's future ONE TIME coming to gather His Church AFTER the "great tribulation" He showed that is for the END of this world.

Thus you need to apologize for your bearing FALSE WITNESS against me.

Do you believe in a Millennium? If so you still have two returns.

 

[SetFree]

If Christ returns for the Rapture. And then returns at the end of the world, even Jethro Bodine can cipher that as being two returns.

I never said Jesus comes to rapture the Church PRIOR to the "great tribulation". That is a PRE-TRIB belief. I am NOT Pre-trib. I am POST-TRIB. (And I think you well know it, but you instead for would rather push false witness against me because what you... have been taught doesn't believe in the "caught up" that Paul taught at all!

So why don't you just tear out that 1 Thessalonians 4 Scripture out of your Bible, since you obviously refuse to believe it...

1 Thess 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

 

[Lamb]

Then people here should not call me a LIAR by saying I said things I did not.

How about instead of making it personal you clarify what you're saying? That's the best way to go about this.

 

[1689Dave]

I never said Jesus comes to rapture the Church PRIOR to the "great tribulation". That is a PRE-TRIB belief. I am NOT Pre-trib. I am POST-TRIB. (And I think you well know it, but you instead for would rather push false witness against me because what you... have been taught doesn't believe in the "caught up" that Paul taught at all!

So why don't you just tear out that 1 Thessalonians 4 Scripture out of your Bible, since you obviously refuse to believe it...

1 Thess 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

And then the Millennium? If so = two returns.

 

[SetFree]

Do you believe in a Millennium? If so you still have two returns.

Couldn't win your other false witness argument against me, and now you want to argue Christ's FUTURE "thousand years" of Rev.20 that ONLY will occur at His FUTURE return, WHEN THE RESURRECTION HAPPENS.

Go fish, is all I can say to you now.

 

[Albion]

Nowhere... have I ever said any such idea. By that you are calling me a LIAR, and that is... PERSONAL.

He didn't call you a liar. He contends that your POV is mistaken and/or contradicts itself.

 

[1689Dave]

Couldn't win your other false witness argument against me, and now you want to argue Christ's FUTURE "thousand years" of Rev.20 that ONLY will occur at His FUTURE return, WHEN THE RESURRECTION HAPPENS.

Go fish, is all I can say to you now.

There is no millennium according to Jesus. So now what? If you think there is you have two returns.

 

[SetFree]

And then the Millennium? If so = two returns.

That certainly is nothing but babel someone has planted in your mind.

I am not a Historicist, not a Preterist, not a Dispensationalist, not a Futurist, nor any other ism. I stick to what God's Word teaches as written, and let the chips fall where they may.

I'll say it again, since you have a hard time hearing. THERE IS ONLY ONE TIME THAT JESUS RETURNS, and will be in the FUTURE (and no, that does not mean I am a Futurist). And in that FUTURE event 90% of Christians are still waiting for today, He will gather His faithful Church and begin His "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 over ALL PEOPLES AND NATIONS. That... is what is written in God's Word. Now if you don't agree with what is written in God's Word, then why are you here on a Christian forum?

 

[SetFree]

There is no millennium according to Jesus. So now what? If you think there is you have two returns.

That of course is a LIE against the written Scriptures...

Rev 20:1-5
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
KJV

Why not just tear out those pages out of your Bible also, since you refuse to believe it as written? I'm actually not finding much of The Bible in our discussion that shows you do... believe The Bible as written.

 

[1689Dave]

That of course is a LIE against the written Scriptures...

Rev 20:1-5
20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
KJV

Why not just tear out those pages out of your Bible also, since you refuse to believe it as written? I'm actually not finding much of The Bible in our discussion that shows you do... believe The Bible as written.

So two returns?

 

[1689Dave]

That certainly is nothing but babel someone has planted in your mind.

I am not a Historicist, not a Preterist, not a Dispensationalist, not a Futurist, nor any other ism. I stick to what God's Word teaches as written, and let the chips fall where they may.

I'll say it again, since you have a hard time hearing. THERE IS ONLY ONE TIME THAT JESUS RETURNS, and will be in the FUTURE (and no, that does not mean I am a Futurist). And in that FUTURE event 90% of Christians are still waiting for today, He will gather His faithful Church and begin His "thousand years" reign of Rev.20 over ALL PEOPLES AND NATIONS. That... is what is written in God's Word. Now if you don't agree with what is written in God's Word, then why are you here on a Christian forum?

Jesus condemned millennialism, a Pharisee invention, in the gospels.

 

[SetFree]

How about instead of making it personal you clarify what you're saying? That's the best way to go about this.

I certainly have been clear, very... clear, as to what I have said, and even provided Scripture to prove it. So are you telling me you don't understand me either when I say I believe in ONLY ONE time that Christ Jesus returns to gather His Church, and that will be AFTER the coming "great tribulation" He taught? Are you telling me you don't understand that either?