Roe v Wade Overturned

[Lamb]

There are words for what you've written here. None of which I can mention here. It is, frankly, [staff edit]. Until a ZEF has made it through the vicissitudes of gestation it remains a potential. As for the "sucking it's thumb" nonsense most abortions take place long before there is a thumb to suck. Any taking place so late that there are recognisable features are medically mandated.

No swearing please.

 

[tango]

...and be supported by dads who don't want to use a condom and pay child support. We need to tell the truth.... we need to support BOTH moms and babies.... we need to counter the division, the divisiveness that the pro-abortion camp so needs.... we need to encourage responsibility, care, support.

I recently read an article about how overturning Roe would mean that it would cost men more. As a man all I could think was that this is how it should be. You get someone pregnant, you take responsibility for your actions. Just like with other actions. Of course if the mother is someone who is with a different guy each night and has no idea which of them is the father, and indeed doesn't even know who she has been sleeping with, she ends up stuck with the results.

It seems to be regarded as desperately old-fashioned these days but that word "no" is a mighty powerful contraceptive.

 

[Josiah]

I recently read an article about how overturning Roe would mean that it would cost men more. As a man all I could think was that this is how it should be. You get someone pregnant, you take responsibility for your actions. Just like with other actions. Of course if the mother is someone who is with a different guy each night and has no idea which of them is the father, and indeed doesn't even know who she has been sleeping with, she ends up stuck with the results.

It seems to be regarded as desperately old-fashioned these days but that word "no" is a mighty powerful contraceptive.

VERY well said.... and yup, right to the heart of the matter.




Ladies, don't read what follows....


As a guy.... I'm willing to admit something a LOT of us guys won't. At least publicly. Abortion - for the GUY - is a great thing. It is typically our preferred birth control method because it doesn't involve us. No condom (a lot of us HATE those things), no interruptions, and MOST OF ALL, no child support. You see, we're all told around the age of 10-12 or so that if the girl gets pregnant, we legally are responsible for child support until that kid turns 18. That's EIGHTEEN YEARS of monthly child support payments, we're talking perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars (a big expense for not using a condom). Now, often the girl (and her parents) don't legally pursue that BUT sometimes they do. And they can now test and PROVE you're the daddy, no use denying it, no way to claim it was some other guy. BUT there's that wonderful thing called abortion! It's like a Sacrament for guys! You don't have to do anything (except maybe pressure the girl), it costs you nothing, there's no child support, FREE! What a wonderful thing! And I don't need those condoms. What a wonderful world we live in! I think there are a lot of guys (especially around my age) who think: WOW, if it wasn't for abortion, who knows how many kids I'd be sending child support payments to each month!

But here's the deal: In nearly all countries (except North Korea), abortion may be legal but it's a LOT harder to get than here before the overturning of Roe v Wade and still in states like California and New York.... lots of restrictions and time limits in Germany and France and Denmark and Austria, etc., etc. And they have lower abortion rates than here. But I suspect the intercourse rate is similar. AND their birth rate is actually lower than here. Hum. How can that all be true? EASY: Abortion is not the preferred birth control method; it's often not seen as a birth control method at all. They are more apt to use contraceptives. And yes, that means those hated condoms, too. Darn. Who likes contraceptives???? THIS is why we don't want to join countries like Germany and Sweden ... but rather stick with North Korea. Lots of men like abortion; it's practically a male sacrament. And a lot of guys PASSIONATELY defend and support it, religiously.

So, a lot of men IGNORE the obvious cost: the girl crying, a baby dying. Because there's no cost to us. Guys gets off scott free. I have a relative who served on a bomber during the Vietnam war. He commented that on his many missions, dropping those bombs, he never ONCE thought that people were dying as a result. NEVER ONCE thought that. Why? He gave the answer to his own question: he didn't want to consider the cost. I wonder if something similar is going on with abortion.

There a scene in the movie Almost Famous where the issue or responsibility comes up. One of the characters says, "Didn't we get into this to AVOID responsibility?" I think a LOT of people - guys and girls - are simply trying to avoid responsibility, to do adult things but as a little kid without responsibility. It allows us to avoid the cost. And to just have fun.

Should we guys HONESTLY think about that?

Maybe?



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[tango]

One other consideration is the availability of contraceptives. I can't comment on Europe but suspect their model is closer to the UK than the US. It's pretty easy in the UK to get contraceptives free of charge. Birth control pills are cheap or free and condoms are cheap with many places giving them away for free, although I'd be more inclined to trust free condoms from a doctor's office than the ones sometimes handed out from a bowl at a party.

I can't say I've ever tried to find contraceptives in the US but from what I understand it involves a doctor's visit with a price tag attached, and then a price tag for whatever you get. Obviously you can buy condoms fairly easily but I suspect that most women would prefer to take responsibility themselves, given they are the ones stuck with the baby if the guy skips out and also, as you say, so many guys hate condoms.

It doesn't justify things but does make it at least somewhat more understandable that people might choose crossing their fingers rather than crossing their legs to avoid pregnancy.


ETA: It constantly comes back to accepting responsibility for the consequences for your actions. If you consent to an action - any action - then you logically consent to the readily predictable consequences of that action.

 

[Albion]

There are words for what you've written here. None of which I can mention here. It is, frankly, [staff edit]. Until a ZEF has made it through the vicissitudes of gestation it remains a potential. As for the "sucking it's thumb" nonsense most abortions take place long before there is a thumb to suck. Any taking place so late that there are recognisable features are medically mandated.

Basically, I have to wonder if a person who lives half way around the globe really is an expert in how the abortion industry operates in the USA, especially since we had half of the US House of Representatives vote against outlawing even "partial birth" abortions. That's the common term for the physician murdering a child who's been carried to term, holding part of the baby's body in the birth canal while he kills the child. But as you've pointed out, there are people ready to argue that because "most" abortions take place earlier in the pregnancy than this, the lives of these unfortunate victims don't count for anything.

 

[kiwimac]

"Abortion Industry" hmm. A person can have an abortion for a number of reasons, none of which need bother you unless you are the one having the abortion. It simply is not your business. We have no rights ,as Christians, to deal with humans from any other place than the ones we are commanded, love and compassion. However let's discuss ; My grandmother and great grandmother, were both, in their times, midwives. They dealt with the mess of backstreet abortions, with women worn out from constant childbirth and poverty. They both considered that the provision of safe abortion was a necessity along with contraception and a strong education of the young.

 

[Albion]

"Abortion Industry" hmm. A person can have an abortion for a number of reasons, none of which need bother you unless you are the one having the abortion. It simply is not your business.

In that case, neither are any of the following to be considered the "business" of the nation's citizenry and voters--

Shootings, shoplifting, carjackings, assaults, breaking and entering, embezzlement, vandalism, election fraud, and too many other crimes to list here.

Your argument was a loser from the start.

They both considered that the provision of safe abortion was a necessity along with contraception and a strong education of the young.

"Safe?" When you can point to an abortion in which no one dies, get back to us and we'll consider it.

 

[kiwimac]

In that case, neither are any of the following to be considered the "business" of the nation's citizenry and voters--

Shootings, shoplifting, carjackings, assaults, breaking and entering, embezzlement, vandalism, election fraud, and too many other crimes to list here.

Your argument was a loser from the start.




"Safe?" When you can point to an abortion in which no one dies, get back to us and we'll consider it.

Twaddle. But what I've come to expect! A clump of cells vs a fully grown, functioning woman. You and yours can rack off. I shake the dust from my sandals at you.

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[Josiah]

"Abortion Industry" hmm. A person can have an abortion for a number of reasons, none of which need bother you unless you are the one having the abortion. It simply is not your business.

Interest morality you promote...

So no one should give a rip if a woman is raped or a person is murdered or if a senior is molested ... well, as one as we aren't the one doing the raping or murdering. Everyone else needs to shut up, it doesn't concern them.



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[Albion]

A clump of cells vs a fully grown, functioning woman.

Ah, the Science Deniers' argument.

Well, a baby is not a clump of cells. Everyone who's lived in the 21st century rather than the 19th knows this.

 

[kiwimac]

Ah, the Science Deniers' argument.

Well, a baby is not a clump of cells. Everyone who's lived in the 21st century rather than the 19th knows this.

Twaddle. Most abortions occur while it is indeed a clump of cells. If you can't deal with that that's your problem not mine.

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[Albion]

I really don't mean any offense, Mac, but it's a proven, scientific fact that the baby's eyes and other facial features are formed in the first few weeks and, after two months, the baby is even grasping with his hands and fingers.

So, the old-fashioned theory that the fetus is just a "clump of cells" during the time when you approve of a no-holds-barred abortionfest is like continuing to argue that the world is flat or that the plantation's African slaves aren't quite human, it's so embarrassingly out of date.