Is it LAWFUL to kill animals?

[DanielL]

-The simple answer is no, it isn't.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

-But some may add unto the word, saying "thou shalt not kill humans, and humans only", when that is not what is written. A kill is killing anything that has the Breath of Life in it, given by the Father, and animals do have this Breath of Life, the living soul of the Father.

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?


Genesis 7:15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

-So, because animals have this Breath of Life, it is unlawful to kill them, it is a sin against God and His Breath, and against His Will, for how can you take away that which God has given, and how can you kill that which God made alive?

-Also, animals were created innocent, and were seen as "very good" by the Father. And the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, so all sons are born innocent.
-Animals are capable of sin, evident by the sin of the snake, which was a "beast of the field that the LORD God had made", and she was punished accordingly, proving it was a sin for her to lie, because God punished her.

So, animals are created innocent, and are to be presumed innocent until they sin. Meaning they have innocent blood.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

 

[Lamb]

Didn't God command animal sacrifices in the Old Testament?

 

[DanielL]

Didn't God command animal sacrifices in the Old Testament?

No, God cannot command abominations that are against His Will.

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:


Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

 

[Lamb]

Exodus 12:1-11
The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb[a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.

Oh, but God did command slaughter of animals.

 

[DanielL]

God did command slaughter of animals.

God cannot command abominations. He cannot contradict Himself.

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:


Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

 

[Josiah]

-The simple answer is no, it isn't.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

The Hebrew word means "to murder, to purposely kill an innocent, defenseless person."


If it is forbidden, sinful and "unlawful" to kill an animal, then God ordered His people to sin when He told them to kill a lamb in Exodus 12:6. And I don't think God commands people to sin. IMO, if God specifically commands something, it's probably safe to assume it's not sinful, forbidden and unlawful.

See Genesis 9:3 and Exodus 12:6.




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[DanielL]

He told them to kill a lamb in Exodus 12:6.

No, God cannot command sin, He didn't.

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

 

[DanielL]

Genesis 9:3

The LORD cannot add unto the Word. He doesn't change, nor does His Law, nor His Word. The Word was herbs and fruits from the beginning, and that is the Word for ever, nothing can be added unto it. The Law endureth forever.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Psalm 119:89 For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.

Baruch 4:1 This is the book of the commandments of God, and the law that endureth for ever: all they that keep it shall come to life; but such as leave it shall die.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Psalm 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.

160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

 

[Lamb]

Jeremiah 7:22 22For when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices,


You seem to be quoting Jeremiah incorrectly. See the bold above.

 

[Albion]

No, God cannot command sin, He didn't.

That's right, and killing an animal is not a sin. Josiah explained that.

In addition, it is verrrry unlikely that Jesus would -- according to the Bible -- have called a bunch of fishermen to be his closest associates, would have entrusted them with the responsibility of spreading his religion, and would additionally have helped them to catch more fish...if he thought that killing those animals was evil.

 

[Josiah]

No, God cannot command sin, He didn't.

God didn't command that HE kill lambs in Exodus 12:6, He commanded PEOPLE to kill lambs.

Thus, since you agree that God cannot command sin... and since God commanded people to kill animals in Exodus 12:6, ergo.......




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[Fritz Kobus]

Acts 10:13-15 13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. 14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. 15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.​

 

[DanielL]

called a bunch of fishermen to be his closest associates

He came to call sinners to repentance. The fishermen left their nets.

killing an animal is not a sin

Yes, it is a sin against God, and His Breath of Life which is present in all living creatures. Furthermore it is an abomination, to shed innocent blood.
Also, murder.
Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man [...]

 

[DanielL]

Jeremiah 7:22 22For when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices,

You are quoting Jeremiah incorrectly, the word "just" is not in the Hebrew..

and since God commanded people to kill animals in Exodus 12:6, ergo.......

First He didn't command sin. Secondly, killing animals is sin, you need to address the arguments I presented in the first post, that prove it is.

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

 

[DanielL]

killing an animal is not a sin. Josiah explained that.

He hasn't responded to a single argument, neither have you. Yes kill means murder, killing animals is also murder.

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man [...]

kill, and eat

God cannot tempt, nor command sin.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

 

[Fritz Kobus]

"Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human with malice aforethought."

Murder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Albion]

He came to call sinners to repentance. The fishermen left their nets.

Oh, no. Later in Jesus' public ministry, he told his Apostles to let down their nets for a catch (this was after they had had little luck earlier), and the result was that they took in a big haul of fish.

So, it was a miracle...yes, but it was also clear evidence that killing an animal is not in itself sinful.

 

[Albion]

He hasn't responded to a single argument, neither have you. Yes kill means murder, killing animals is also murder.

On discussion boards, there are all sorts of personal opinions and some very strange theories getting posted, and we've taken note of yours.

However, your theory isn't supported by Scripture, you haven't offered us even a logical basis for your stance, and the theory is virtually without any support from Christian theologians and Bible experts.

 

[tango]

You are quoting Jeremiah incorrectly, the word "just" is not in the Hebrew..

First He didn't command sin. Secondly, killing animals is sin, you need to address the arguments I presented in the first post, that prove it is.

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

Sounds like you'd need to write off good chunks of Leviticus if you really want to argue the point. Maybe you missed the intention of one verse? It seems more likely than needing to dump so much of the OT.

 

[DanielL]

"Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse, especially the unlawful killing of another human with malice aforethought."

The Witness of God is Greater.

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man [...]

Murder is killing the Breath fo Life, either in man or in beast.

Later in Jesus' public ministry, he told his Apostles to let down their nets for a catch (this was after they had had little luck earlier), and the result was that they took in a big haul of fish.

No, Jesus cannot kill, He cannot shed innocent blood, nor can he condemn the guiltless, these are all abominations unto Him.

Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

your theory isn't supported by Scripture

Yes, it is. That is why you are yet to respond to any of the arguments and the verses I presented.
-They all have one breath, the Breath of Life, killing an ox is like killing a man, and Thou shalt not kill.
-The LORD hates hands that shed innocent blood. Animals have innocent blood. They were all created innocent.
-The LORD desires mercy and not sacrifice, anything that desires or commands sacrifices is not the LORD. Because the LORD cannot change.

Also, even a better argument, is that the LORD cannot change. So, if you grant me that the LORD gave fruit and herbs for food, you grant me that herbs and fruits shall be food FOREVER, even unto this day. Because the LORD is Perfect and cannot change, nor can His Word change, nor His Law, nor His Will, nor His Testimonies...

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Psalm 119:89 For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.

Mathew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Baruch 4:1 This is the book of the commandments of God, and the law that endureth for ever: all they that keep it shall come to life; but such as leave it shall die.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Psalm 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.

160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

-So, whatever you think happened after the flood, I can assure you that, according to the Scriptures, it wasn't God changing His Mind, nor His Law, nor His Word, because that is impossible for a Perfect God. They "shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it".
He will never legalize murder. Shedding innocent blood will always be an abomination unto Him.