Is it LAWFUL to kill animals?

[DanielL]

lies

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

I am curious what church body holds to the idea that killing an animal is murder.

 

[DanielL]

I am curious what church body holds to the idea that killing an animal is murder.

The Body of Christ, His Bride.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

The Body of Christ, His Bride.

No, I am talking about denominations, such as Presbyterian or Pentecostal, etc. I am unaware of any who believe killing an animal is murder. If so, they would all be vegetarians. Are you a vegetarian?

 

[Lanman87]

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

That means, herbs and fruits shall be food for ever, because His Word endureth for ever, nothing can be added unto the Word.

Malachi 3:6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Psalm 119:89 For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.

Mathew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Baruch 4:1 This is the book of the commandments of God, and the law that endureth for ever: all they that keep it shall come to life; but such as leave it shall die.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Psalm 119:152 Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever.

160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

-The LORD cannot be pleased by something He hates. If He was pleased with Abel's sacrifice it means Abel didn't blood sacrificed an animal.

God cannot change His Word, so whatever you think happend after the flood, I can assure you, that according to Scripture, it wasn't God changing His Mind on the Word He had given to Adam.. It is impossible for a Perfect God to change His Word, or to add unto it.

Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

How do you explain these scriptures other than to ignore them, deny they exist, or say the God can't direct people to sin (which is true) and one way we know that eating animals isn't a sin. God told us that they are to be our food.

Genesis 9:2-3 The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every animal of the earth and on every bird of the sky; on everything that crawls on the ground, and on all the fish of the sea. They are handed over to you. 3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I have given everything to you, as I gave the green plant.

Exodus 12:5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight.

 

[Josiah]

No, I am talking about denominations, such as Presbyterian or Pentecostal, etc. I am unaware of any who believe killing an animal is murder. If so, they would all be vegetarians. Are you a vegetarian?

In other words, WHICH specific denominations teach that God used the wrong word in that Commandment (he should have inspired "harag" but messed up and inspired "lo tirtach").... that teaches that God commanded people to sin at the Passover by telling them to kill a lamb... that holds that God lies and commands us to sin?

Yeah, I'd like to see that list. Perhaps if Daniel would state the denomination of his own parish, and then we can see if he is correctly stating the position or if his church needs to talk to him.




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[DanielL]

No, I am talking about denominations, such as Presbyterian or Pentecostal, etc. I am unaware of any who believe killing an animal is murder. If so, they would all be vegetarians.

I don't know of any "established" denominations as of today, I know there were the ebionites and the essenes back then, it is said John the Baptist was somewhat associated with them. Also, the essenes were the ones who lived at those Qumran caves, where they found the dead sea scrolls..
Point beeing, there is no new thing under the sun, the essenes already didn't sacrifice animals, nor ate flesh. They instead used baptism for cleansing sin, much like John the Baptist and Jesus..

Are you a vegetarian?

I'm against killing the Breath of Life, cutting of flesh by the sword, and the shedding of innocent blood.

 

[DanielL]

God can't direct people to sin (which is true)

That is the explanation. God didn't command sin nor abominations. An enemy did this, the same way an enemy came by night and sowed tares among the good wheat the King had sown. This is nothing new.

Ezekiel 22:28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

God told us that they are to be our food.

God cannot add unto His Word. God cannot change. God will never legalize murder, nor the shedding of innocent blood. God will never change His testimonies. Etc...
God issued a decree: herbs and fruits are food. Which means herbs and fruits are food FOREVER, nothing can be put to it. Because God is Perfect, whatsoever He does shall be forever.

Ecclesiastes 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

-So, The witness of God is Greater. God is Perfect, He cannot change, not even if the witness of man says He did. And whoever says He did, must be the witness of man, because God cannot deny Himself of His Perfect Nature.

 

[DanielL]

God commanded people to sin at the Passover by telling them to kill a lamb...

I'm saying He didn't. You don't have to believe me, just believe Him...

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

 

[Josiah]

DanielL -

So, no one and no church agrees with you that God used the wrong word in the Commandment: He SHOULD have inspired "harag" so as to show you (alone!) are right but He goofed and inspired the word "tirtach" - requiring you to correct Him by deleting the word He used and replacing it with a very different one....

And no one and no church agrees with you that God commanded people to sin when He told them to kill a lamb at the Passover.

You are correct.

That should give you pause....




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[Lanman87]

I'm saying He didn't. You don't have to believe me, just believe Him...

So the scriptures are wrong and cannot be believed?

 

[Lees]

Sin offerings are sin, Thou shalt not kill. God cannot require sin.

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

-Also, it is against His Will, God cannot require something that is against His Will.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

-And God cannot require abominations.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

-That is why He never commanded sacrifices, nor murder, nor burnt offerings..

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

-You choose whom will ye serve, either the LORD that desires mercy, or the bloodthirty murder that demans blood sacrifice, you can't serve both masters.

So what do you do with the book of (Leviticus) and the verses I showed you?

Lees

 

[Lees]

It does matter they are corrupt, because that is the only ones God can kill, the wicked. The righteous He cannot kill.

Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.

Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Thank you. The point is that God kills. A point you now acknowledge.

Lees

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Fritz Kobus said:
Are you a vegetarian?

I'm against killing the Breath of Life, cutting of flesh by the sword, and the shedding of innocent blood.

So then you will eat meat, just not kill it yourself?

 

[DanielL]

So, no one and no church agrees with you

The Church of Christ agrees. But no church of this world, no. His Church is in the world but not of it.

He told them to kill a lamb at the Passover.

He cannot command abominations that He hates. He didn't.

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

So the scriptures are wrong and cannot be believed?

That is for you to decide, which ones you believe in. Choose whom will ye serve. Either the LORD that desires mercy, or the idol that demmands blood sacrifice. You can't serve both masters, tho. One has to give.

 

[DanielL]

So then you will eat meat, just not kill it yourself?

Don't be childish, eating meat requires killing the Breath, cutting the flesh and shedding the blood..
It is also the body of death. It is lust and corruption.

Numbers 11:4 And the mixt multitude that was among them fell a lusting: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?


18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the Lord, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the Lord will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.

19 Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days;

20 But even a whole month, until it come out at your nostrils, and it be loathsome unto you: because that ye have despised the Lord which is among you, and have wept before him, saying, Why came we forth out of Egypt?


33 And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord was kindled against the people, and the Lord smote the people with a very great plague.

34 And he called the name of that place Kibrothhattaavah: because there they buried the people that lusted.

 

[Josiah]

He cannot command abominations that He hates. He didn't.

You claim God never told anyone to kill an animal. But like pretty much everything you've posted here, you are wrong (and CLEARLY you don't care).

Exodus 12:1-10

The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, 2 “This month shall be for you the beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year for you. 3 Tell all the congregation of Israel that on the tenth day of this month they shall take every man a lamb according to their fathers’ houses, a lamb for a household; 4 and if the household is too small for a lamb, then a man and his neighbor next to his house shall take according to the number of persons; according to what each can eat you shall make your count for the lamb. 5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old; you shall take it from the sheep or from the goats; 6 and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs in the evening. 7 Then they shall take some of the blood, and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat them. 8 They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it. 9 Do not eat any of it raw or boiled with water, but roasted, its head with its legs and its inner parts. 10 And you shall let none of it remain until the morning, anything that remains until the morning you shall burn.

Verse 1: "The LORD SAID"

What part of "The LORD said" don't you understand?

Verse 6 "KILL"

What part of "SHALL KILL" don't you understand? BTW, the verb in verse 6 is the Hebrew "harag" NOT the very different verb in Deut 5:19 which is "tirtach"


You made the ignorant or dishonest claim that God never told anyone to kill an animal. So either you need to prove that the Bible is wrong, or that a lamb is not an animal or perhaps is a rock or an ice cube or a bicycle but absolutely not an animal. Good luck. But one thing I'm pretty sure about, you won't admit you were wrong.






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[DanielL]

Verse 1: "The LORD SAID"

Ezekiel 22:28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken.

Verse 6 "KILL"

The LORD cannot sin, nor command sin, nor abominations, not things that are against His Will, nor that which He hates. Anyone who says He did finds himself against the witness of God, and is found to be a liar because the Witness of God is Greater.

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

You made the ignorant or dishonest claim that God never told anyone to kill an animal.

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

 

[Albion]

I don't know of any "established" denominations as of today,...

That's what we believe to be the case, too. So, what's your own Christian "Affiliation?" I have to wonder, given that you state on your personal profile that you have one.

 

[Castle Church]

I have seen you make this exact argument on other internet Christian forums, and you always get the same responses as to why your position is not Biblical.

• Good portions of Leviticus refute you and show that God did in fact command sacrifices of animals.
• Good portions of Leviticus discuss the exact way to kill animals, and which ones are "clean" to eat.
• While wandering the Israelites were given quail to eat.
• Jesus ate fish with his disciples.

I am really not sure why you keep trying to push this narrative as on every forum you do, you are refuted soundly.

You would be better off just saying that since we were vegetarians in the Garden that it is God's preference.