Mary’s Perpetual Virginity

[Albion]

Why did Mary make a vow to God of perpetual virginity?

She didn't.

Almost all Bible versions have the verse saying basically the same thing: "He has taken note of me even though I am not considered important. From now on all people will call me blessed."

There is no "vow" at all in that response and certainly no reference to virginity.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

She didn't.

Almost all Bible versions have the verse saying basically the same thing: "He has taken note of me even though I am not considered important. From now on all people will call me blessed."

There is no "vow" at all in that response and certainly no reference to virginity.

the reason for the vow is her humility

Explain Lk 1:34 without a vow

 

[Josiah]

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

The blessed Mary mother of God, is a perpetual virgin to the glory of God!

Thanks for proving that Scripture says NOTHING about Mary making a vow... any vow ... about anything.




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[Albion]

the reason for the vow is her humility

There was no vow.

 

[tango]

This could be fun. I guess if Mary saying "how can this be, for I do not know a man?" implies she was perpetually a virgin, I guess Jeremiah inadvertently uncovered the secret of eternal youth. After all, did he not say "I cannot speak for I am a youth", thereby guaranteeing a future in which he was forever young?

Now if only there were some way of bottling that....

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

There was no vow.

Where does the Bible say there was no vow?
You have not explain Lk 1:34

 

[Albion]

Where does the Bible say there was no vow?

Where does the Bible say that Mary made a vow such as you are claiming? Nowhere.

And you ask about Luke 1:34. You ask me to explain its meaning if there were no vow. Okay; here is the verse--
"He has taken note of me even though I am not considered important. From now on all people will call me blessed."

Mary says that she is no one special, but God chose her to be the mother of Jesus. Okay so far? Then she says that people in the future will call her blessed? Where's there a vow of chastity in that?? She is saying just what the angel had announced to her--that she had found favor with God and had been selected for this important event, to give birth to the Savior.

You are simply "penciling in" whatever you would like Mary to have said or done.

 

[Josiah]

You have not explain Lk 1:34

Try something radical and new for you: Read the verse. Yeah, try it! Read the words. Then you'll see the OBVIOUS, the UNDENIABLE staring you right in the face: Nothing about any vow.

Everyone here (but you) knows that because we've read the verse. Try it for yourself. I think it might be an enormous epiphany.



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[Faithhopeandcharity]

Where does the Bible say that Mary made a vow such as you are claiming? Nowhere.

And you ask about Luke 1:34. You ask me to explain its meaning if there were no vow. Okay; here is the verse--
"He has taken note of me even though I am not considered important. From now on all people will call me blessed."

Mary says that she is no one special, but God chose her to be the mother of Jesus. Okay so far? Then she says that people in the future will call her blessed? Where's there a vow of chastity in that?? She is saying just what the angel had announced to her--that she had found favor with God and had been selected for this important event, to give birth to the Savior.

You are simply "penciling in" whatever you would like Mary to have said or done.

No Lk 1:34
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Try something radical and new for you: Read the verse. Yeah, try it! Read the words. Then you'll see the OBVIOUS, the UNDENIABLE staring you right in the face: Nothing about any vow.

Everyone here (but you) knows that because we've read the verse. Try it for yourself. I think it might be an enormous epiphany.



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Epiphany? Three kings are going to show at at my house?

lk 1:34 34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

I KNOW NOT A MAN

 

[Josiah]

γινώσκω

It's PRESENT tense.

It states NOTHING - absolutely nothing whatsoever - about the FUTURE.

She COULD have stated, "Because I'm a virgin forever" or "I am and will remain a virgin" but that would have needed different tenses.

To employ exegesis, you need to DELETE the word she used and then REPLACE it with one she did not. And that would not only be dishonest but disrespectful to Our Lady. We should be honest and respectful and employ the word she used. It means "I KNOW not a man." PRESENT. Everyone can say for some years since every human begins life as a virgin- but that does not mean ERGO they all are PERPETUAL virgins. Surely you know that.

Let's stop playing games with Her words.... it's dishonest, it's disrespectful.




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[Bluezone777]

Luke 1:34 Commentaries: Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"

I read some commentary on Luke 1:34 which I found interesting to say the least. The verse states that she was asking how could she become pregnant this very second if she was a virgin at that moment. She assumed that what the angle spoke to her would occur to her at that very second of it being uttered. She wanted to know how the Angel was going to go about the task of her becoming pregnant if she never had sex with a man at any time up to that point when he said what he said to her.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

I am as tired of your endlessly spouting Catholic falsehoods in this forum as I am of you in another forum, aka, Theefaith.

To all the non-Catholics out there, HERE is where the 'perpetual virginity of Mary' nonsense comes from...directly from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

#499 The deepening of faith in the virginal motherhood led the Church to confess Mary's real and perpetual virginity even in the act of giving birth to the Son of God made man.154 In fact, Christ's birth "did not diminish his mother's virginal integrity but sanctified it."155 and so the liturgy of the Church celebrates Mary as Aeiparthenos, the "Ever- virgin".

As shown above, it is the "Church", ie, the CATHOLIC CHURCH alone that declares Mary's perpetual virginity. Absolutely nowhere in Gods' engrafted Word is such a declaration made.

Nor must it be
The Bible alone is not the rule of faith for Christians but Christ and his church
Teaching authority

 

[Albion]

No Lk 1:34
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

All that's here is Mary stating that she was a virgin at the time of the Annunciation.

So, there's no vow of any sort; and her comment does not refer to her being a virgin in the future.

There is no dispute about the meaning of her remarks there. It means that she did not understand how she could have a child (Jesus) since she had not had sexual relations with anyone up to that point. What's more, the next verse confirms this.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary anywhere in scripture, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness! Especially after hearing from an angel that her child was of the Holy Spirit! Joseph was full of joy to be the guardian of Marr and her purity!

 

[Lanman87]

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man,

Since when does Just = Chaste? In a marriage the sexual union is just and fitting and holy. As a matter of fact, to not have a sexual union would make marriage unjust and unholy.

 

[Josiah]

The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man,

It is not a sign of "just" for a married man to be "chaste." Your premise that the loving, mutual sharing of marital intimacies means the wife is desecrated and the husband unjust is unbiblical, absurd (and also not Catholic teaching).

2 Sam 12:24

Thanks for proving Scripture does not say Mary remained a virgin "perpetually".... never says that the loving, mutual sharing of marital intimacies desecrates the wife and makes the husband unjust.






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[Faithhopeandcharity]

Since when does Just = Chaste? In a marriage the sexual union is just and fitting and holy. As a matter of fact, to not have a sexual union would make marriage unjust and unholy.

Not so
All marriages must be chaste exclusive of all others to just and holy or its adultry

 

[Lanman87]

Not so

So you don't believe that sexual union between a husband and wife is just, fitting, and holy?