I am saved?

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Are you going by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4

“I am saved”! Really?

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

Phil 1:29 called suffer

1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Some will abandon the faith

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

2 Peter 2:21 "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude 1: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

Faith and baptism: Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 1 pet 3:20-21 Acts 8:36-38

The doctrine of “the Bible alone” is really just the spiritual pride of self-righteous private judgement!

Jn 15:1 abide in me, 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!

Humility and obedience of faith !
Thanks feel free to share youre insights

 

[Pedrito]

===================================================================================

Faithhopeandcharity’s presentation was most compelling, wasn’t it? Seriously.

===================================================================================

If we add a proper look (a closer look than the superficial norm) at John 1:12, we discover something that we are not normally taught.

John 1:12 tells us those who believed were (and by implication, those who believe still are) given the right/power/authority/power of choice, to become children of God.

It is not automatic. A second step is involved and required. That is the start of the journey which must be endured to the end.

===================================================================================

The question is: What is the nature of that second step?

(It would seem to be one from which there is no turning back.)

===================================================================================

 

[Lamb]

The big question is Who Can Save Me? Isn't it God?

 

[Albion]

===================================================================================

Faithhopeandcharity’s presentation was most compelling, wasn’t it? Seriously.

Was your comment here SUPPOSED to be a joke? Or did it just come out that way??

 

[Fritz Kobus]

We are saved by faith through grace, but we can lose that faith if we wander from the faith or shrink back from obedience to God. That is what verses such as Mark 13:13 (".. he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.") are about. That is why the Bible also says in Phillipians 2:12, "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." We must always be on our guard to be sure we stay in the faith and not sleepily wander away from it or become lackadaisical in our obedience. We must always remember that "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31) and know that we are given grace, but to play free and loose with that grace is a very dangerous path to follow. Yes we will sin, and yes God will forgive, but we want to avoid the idea that we can sin freely and willfully on a regular basis and expect to continue in grace. Bottom line: sin is no joking matter.

And the short answer to the OP's question is that we are definitely saved if we are in Christ. Now by the grace of God let us continue in grace and obedience to our Heavenly King.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

It’s not a bible study!
It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

the promise of the Father acts 2:38-39 is the sacraments instituted by Christ for our salvation, yes faith but not faith alone! Yes grace but applied to our souls in the sacraments!

mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 Faith & baptism

 

[Lamb]

It’s not a bible study!
It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

the promise of the Father acts 2:38-39 is the sacraments instituted by Christ for our salvation, yes faith but not faith alone! Yes grace but applied to our souls in the sacraments!

mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 Faith & baptism

Baptism is God's work in us (be baptized is passive language meaning something is happening to you and anothen is from above). Baptisms gives faith so yes, it's still faith alone. It's not anything we do to achieve salvation. It's God's work entirely.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Baptism is God's work in us (be baptized is passive language meaning something is happening to you and anothen is from above). Baptisms gives faith so yes, it's still faith alone. It's not anything we do to achieve salvation. It's God's work entirely.

Then all men are saved?

 

[Lamb]

Then all men are saved?

No, because there are those who reject Jesus as Savior and the forgiveness that was won at the cross. They damn themselves.

 

[Josiah]

Thanks feel free to share youre insights

It all depends how you are using the word "salvation." It is often used in a narrower and broader sense (even in Scripture). The word (synonomous with "justification") is often used in both senses.

When Protestants use the term, typically they mean it in the narrow sense, "narrow justification." Catholics may use it this way too, sometimes calling it "initial grace."

When Protestants use it, they are thinking of being "born again" (it's often interchangable with that). They mean the coming of the Holy Spirit, the dawning of spiritual life, the changed relationship with God, the gaining of forgiveness. It is a birth, a change.

When Catholics use it, they often mean "justification" in a broader sense, to include all God desires for us, to be sanctified not just in some judicial sense but in the sense of our lives. It INCLUDES the narrow sense of Protestants (sometimes Catholics point to Baptism here) but goes way beyond that - it is a much broader, the broader sense of the term.

For Protestants, there is a sharp distinction theologically between Justification and Sanctification.... the first is the changed relationship, the second is the result of it. The first is the COMING of life, the second is the LIVING of that life. On January 23, 1988 I was born .... but ever sense, I've been progressing in more mature, more responsible, more loving, more giving. The first is my changed identity and relationship (being born) the second is my growing up (becoming more Christ life). BOTH are necessary but they are not the same thing. I think Scripture supports this. But for Catholics, this is ONE whole so that all salvation is a progressive, synergistic process... often a very muddy, fuzzy, confused, entangled mess

This is the source of much "talking past" each other.



Blessings!


Josiah (formally Catholic, now Lutheran)




.

 

[Josiah]

Then all men are saved?

See post 10


Yes, as I was taught in the Catholic Church, Baptism DOES grant faith and forgiveness. This point is so important that it got in the Creed ("One baptism for the forgiveness of sins"). Yes, Baptism does mean "born again." As I was taught as a Catholic, it does grant faith, life, forgiveness, the Holy Spirit.... it does mean I was at that moment a child of God.

Here's what the Catholic Church says on this: "Justification is conferred in Baptism." (CCC 1992). "Justification" and "salvation" are synonomous, they mean the same thing. So, according to the CC, if one is baptized then they are saved... because salvation is conferred via Baptism. This is often taught (for example, CCC 1266) Your Ananbaptist view that baptism does nothing is not a Catholic teaching.

Does it mean that at that moment, the recipient becomes as holy as God is holy in his/her life? As loving as Christ on the Cross? Perfect as God is perfect? All things the Bible REQUIRES we be? Nope. It begins the process of becoming so, however.



.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Baptism is God's work in us (be baptized is passive language meaning something is happening to you and anothen is from above). Baptisms gives faith so yes, it's still faith alone. It's not anything we do to achieve salvation. It's God's work entirely.

So that is all good and is official Lutheran teaching, but in my case, I was born again in the fall of 1984 (Sept/Oct, can't remember exactly) and was not baptized until February of 1985. So already having faith, what did Baptism give me?

Now I have to throw in the details it shows my zeal as a new Christian. So I was in the adult catechism class at a LCMS church. There were three of us and the pastor. When we got to the baptism part, I declaried, "I need to be baptized." The pastor asked if I had been baptized as a baby. I replied that I had not. He asked when do you want to be baptized. I replied, "Right now." So we did it that night during catechism class.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

No, because there are those who reject Jesus as Savior and the forgiveness that was won at the cross. They damn themselves.

But you said it’s God’s work entirely???

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

It all depends how you are using the word "salvation." It is often used in a narrower and broader sense (even in Scripture). The word (synonomous with "justification") is often used in both senses.

When Protestants use the term, typically they mean it in the narrow sense, "narrow justification." Catholics may use it this way too, sometimes calling it "initial grace."

When Protestants use it, they are thinking of being "born again" (it's often interchangable with that). They mean the coming of the Holy Spirit, the dawning of spiritual life, the changed relationship with God, the gaining of forgiveness. It is a birth, a change.

When Catholics use it, they often mean "justification" in a broader sense, to include all God desires for us, to be sanctified not just in some judicial sense but in the sense of our lives. It INCLUDES the narrow sense of Protestants (sometimes Catholics point to Baptism here) but goes way beyond that - it is a much broader, the broader sense of the term.

For Protestants, there is a sharp distinction theologically between Justification and Sanctification.... the first is the changed relationship, the second is the result of it. The first is the COMING of life, the second is the LIVING of that life. On January 23, 1988 I was born .... but ever sense, I've been progressing in more mature, more responsible, more loving, more giving. The first is my changed identity and relationship (being born) the second is my growing up (becoming more Christ life). BOTH are necessary but they are not the same thing. I think Scripture supports this. But for Catholics, this is ONE whole so that all salvation is a progressive, synergistic process... often a very muddy, fuzzy, confused, entangled mess

This is the source of much "talking past" each other.



Blessings!


Josiah (formally Catholic, now Lutheran)




.

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

 

[Lamb]

But you said it’s God’s work entirely???

Yes. And? Men can and do reject Him according to scripture.

 

[Lamb]

So that is all good and is official Lutheran teaching, but in my case, I was born again in the fall of 1984 (Sept/Oct, can't remember exactly) and was not baptized until February of 1985. So already having faith, what did Baptism give me?

Now I have to throw in the details it shows my zeal as a new Christian. So I was in the adult catechism class at a LCMS church. There were three of us and the pastor. When we got to the baptism part, I declaried, "I need to be baptized." The pastor asked if I had been baptized as a baby. I replied that I had not. He asked when do you want to be baptized. I replied, "Right now." So we did it that night during catechism class.

You didn't miss out on anything in your baptism and here are the benefits!

1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:3-10. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through Baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

* Note: These passages from Colossians and Romans are summarized well by Dr. Lowell Green: “Baptism is the retroactive participation in the work of Good Friday and Easter Sunday — even better, it is incorporation into the body of the risen and ascended Savior ...”

Galatians 3:27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Eph. 5:26. Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.

Titus 3:5. He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

Corinthians 12:13. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:11. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Acts 22:16. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

[Faithhopeandcharity]

Yes. And? Men can and do reject Him according to scripture.

The selfish Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior is not in the Bible!

Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 faith and baptism

 

[Josiah]

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord!

Since that's your definition of "salvation" then NO ONE is saved.... it only happens at the microsecond of death. And of course, thus Baptism does not save since Baptism doesn't (typically) kill anyone.


Yes, there are verses that speak of salvation in the future (obviously when the full benefits are received) but also that speak of it in the past. You just ignore that. One example: Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God," Paul writes this to LIVING people, the Ephesian Christians, He says they HAVE BEEN SAVED." sesosmenoi = having already been saved. He says of people very much still alive (and still sinful).



.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

Yes. And? Men can and do reject Him according to scripture.

My pastor in that catechism class back in 1985 told us that if we are saved it is entirely God's doing and if we are lost it is entirely our own doing.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

That is a great way of stating what is often very confusingly conveyed as objective justification. For sure, the redemption of all manking was inherent in the sacrifical death of Jesus on the cross, but nobody was declared justifiied on that basis alone, but only by faith in receiving Jesus as their personal savior.