Was the Messiah prophesied to heal the blind according to the OT?

Andrew

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That's not how it was presented in the OP. Looks like Andrew is following in your footsteps of trying to switch what the OP represents?
The OP is a simple question concerning the whereabouts of a specific prophetic line that should be in Isaiah 61 according the Jesus.

Again this has nothing to do with apocryphal books and I am not using any form of switch baiting, its a genuine question.
 

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The OP is a simple question concerning the whereabouts of a specific prophetic line that should be in Isaiah 61 according the Jesus.

Again this has nothing to do with apocryphal books and I am not using any form of switch baiting, its a genuine question.

And I answered the OP satisfactorily. Nathan disagrees and says you and he meant for the thread to be something different.
 

RichWh1

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"And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him"
Luke 4:17-20

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God"
Isaiah 61:1-2

Where is this prophecy of "sight to the blind" according to Jesus "written"?

Read Isaiah 42:6-7

“I am the Lord, I have called You in righteousness, I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You, And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations, To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.
Isaiah 42:6-7 - Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 42:6-7 - New American Standard Bible

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NathanH83

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Read Isaiah 42:6-7

“I am the Lord, I have called You in righteousness, I will also hold You by the hand and watch over You, And I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations, To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the dungeon And those who dwell in darkness from the prison.
Isaiah 42:6-7 - Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 42:6-7 - New American Standard Bible

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Yea, the Jews never bothered to remove that section which talks about healing the blind, because that wasn’t the section that Jesus quoted in Luke 4.
 

RichWh1

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The expression ‘to heal those who are blind’ is found in the LXX

the LXX reads:
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to bring good news to the poor, to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind,” (Isaiah 61:1, LXX).1

Since most of the New Testament was written in Greek and the authors use the Greek LXX we need to reference that work.
 

Andrew

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The expression ‘to heal those who are blind’ is found in the LXX

the LXX reads:
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me; he has sent me to bring good news to the poor, to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind,” (Isaiah 61:1, LXX).1

Since most of the New Testament was written in Greek and the authors use the Greek LXX we need to reference that work.
Correct.
 

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You guys do realize that you're trying to say that the translation is far different from the original scripture...but it's not. I pointed that out to you.
 

NathanH83

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You guys do realize that you're trying to say that the translation is far different from the original scripture...but it's not. I pointed that out to you.

The what translation is different than the original what?

I’m not sure what you’re saying here.
 

Andrew

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You guys do realize that you're trying to say that the translation is far different from the original scripture...but it's not. I pointed that out to you.
Its translated from an original text thats no longer around, the Masoretic was also translated from a text that it no longer around.

Jesus quoted from the original text correctly.
 

NathanH83

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You guys do realize that you're trying to say that the translation is far different from the original scripture...but it's not. I pointed that out to you.

Are you saying that it’s wrong for us to say that the Greek Septuagint is different than the Hebrew?

How is the Septuagint not different? It’s vastly different from the Hebrew.

The Hebrew says Joseph had 2 sons. The Septuagint says he had 9.

Genesis 11 has a difference of about 650 years when you compare the genealogies in the Greek Septuagint and the Hebrew Masoretic.

The Hebrew says Goliath was 6 cubits, the Septuagint says he was 4 cubits.

The Hebrew says that Solomon constructed the temple 480 years after the Exodus. The Septuagint says 440 years after the Exodus.

The Greek Septuagint version of Esther and Daniel are vastly different with whole entire extra chapters.

The Septuagint says the “virgin” shall be with child in Isaiah 7, but the Hebrew says the “young woman” shall be with child.

The Septuagint says Jacob’s family had 75 people when they first arrived in Egypt. The Hebrew says 70 people.

The Hebrew says that Saul asked “Who is this boy’s father?” after David killed Goliath, whereas the Septuagint omits that whole section of that chapter.


That’s why I’m a little bit confused. Why is it wrong for us to say that the Greek Septuagint is different than the Hebrew Masoretic? How is it not different? There’s tons of difference from start to finish.
 

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Nathan

Chapter and verse on these please


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NathanH83

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NathanH83

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Nathan

Chapter and verse on these please


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The number of sons of Joseph is in Genesis 46:27, as well as the total number of the Israelites.
 

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Nathan

Chapter and verse on these please


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The Hebrew Masoretic has Goliath at 6 cubits:

“And a champion went out from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span.”
1 Samuel 17:4


The Greek Septuagint has him at 4 cubits:

And a mighty man went out from the battle line of the Philistines named Goliath, from Gath. His height was four cubits and a span.† (1 Kingdoms 17:4, OSB)

Also, the Hebrew Masoretic has more verses in the chapter that the Greek Septuagint doesn’t have. The Septuagint is missing almost half of the chapter. The Septuagint has 33 verses. The Hebrew Masoretic has 58 verses.
 

NathanH83

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Nathan

Chapter and verse on these please


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The Hebrew Masoretic says that the temple began to be built in the 480th year after the Exodus:

“And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel had come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon’s reign over Israel, in the month of Ziv, which is the second month, that he began to build the house of the Lord.”
-1 Kings 6:1 (NKJV)


The Greek Septuagint says that the temple began to be built in the 440th year after the Exodus:

“In the four hundred fortieth year after the children of Israel came out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the second month,”
-3 Kingdoms 6:1 (OSB)
 

NathanH83

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Nathan

Chapter and verse on these please


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As for the 650 years in Genesis 11, instead of posting it here, I’ll just post the link of the YouTube video I made. It gives the full explanation of the 650 years in Genesis 11.

The video starts off talking about the Pyramids. But just keep watching, and it gets into the genealogies in Genesis 11.

I’d explain it here, but it has to be seen visually, with charts and graphs and stuff. It’s about 30 minutes long.

 

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Masoretic TextLXX
46:20 To Joseph in the land of Egypt were born Manasseh and Ephraim, whom Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, bore to him. (NRSV)46:20 To Joseph in the land of Egypt were born sons, Manasseh and Ephraim, whom Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of Heliopolis (=On), bore to him. And to Manasseh were born sons, whom the Syrian concubine bore him, Machir. And Machir became the father of Gilead. And the sons of Manasseh’s brother Ephraim, the brother of Manasseh: Sutalaam and Taam. And the sons of Sutalaam: Edem

The lists in Gen 46 and Num 26 (MT and LXX) are connected, since both contain similar names in virtually the same order (although the Numbers text continues into later generations)



The overall similarity suggests that the five additional names in the LXX of Genesis 46:20 are original to that text, since the other names in the lists are common to both as well.



Num. 26:28 The sons of Joseph by their families: Manasseh and Ephraim. 29 The sons of Manasseh: of Machir, the family of the Machirites; and Machir fathered Gilead: of Gilead, the family of the Gileadites. 30 These are the sons of Gilead: of [l]Iezer, the family of the Iezerites; of Helek, the family of the Helekites; 31 and of Asriel, the family of the Asrielites; and of Shechem, the family of the Shechemites; 32 and of Shemida, the family of the Shemidaites; and of Hepher, the family of the Hepherites. These are the generations of Joseph, not just his 2 sons.



As far as Goliath is concerned, the DSS and LXX both say 4 cubits and a span. That is what the oldest texts say and that is what they went by when translating the LXX



Concerning the 70 vs the 75 people Jacob had, the LXX includes the sons of Joseph and their offspring.


In re Isa. 7

The word for ‘virgin’ and ‘young woman’ are the same Hebrew word ‘alma’. Alma is a betrothed virgin or one promised to be married, indicating that she is a young woman who had not had sexual intercourse.


The Greek word for virgin is ‘parthenon’


Both bethulah and Alma can be translated ‘virgin’



Mary was that young betrothed woman. Isiah calls her 'alma', as opposed to bethulah.
 

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Of course Jesus quoted what He as God originally had written as His Word and neither text conflicts so there shouldn't be this big issue due to translation semantics. The meaning is there.
 

NathanH83

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Masoretic TextLXX
46:20 To Joseph in the land of Egypt were born Manasseh and Ephraim, whom Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, bore to him. (NRSV)46:20 To Joseph in the land of Egypt were born sons, Manasseh and Ephraim, whom Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of Heliopolis (=On), bore to him. And to Manasseh were born sons, whom the Syrian concubine bore him, Machir. And Machir became the father of Gilead. And the sons of Manasseh’s brother Ephraim, the brother of Manasseh: Sutalaam and Taam. And the sons of Sutalaam: Edem

The lists in Gen 46 and Num 26 (MT and LXX) are connected, since both contain similar names in virtually the same order (although the Numbers text continues into later generations)



The overall similarity suggests that the five additional names in the LXX of Genesis 46:20 are original to that text, since the other names in the lists are common to both as well.



Num. 26:28 The sons of Joseph by their families: Manasseh and Ephraim. 29 The sons of Manasseh: of Machir, the family of the Machirites; and Machir fathered Gilead: of Gilead, the family of the Gileadites. 30 These are the sons of Gilead: of [l]Iezer, the family of the Iezerites; of Helek, the family of the Helekites; 31 and of Asriel, the family of the Asrielites; and of Shechem, the family of the Shechemites; 32 and of Shemida, the family of the Shemidaites; and of Hepher, the family of the Hepherites. These are the generations of Joseph, not just his 2 sons.



As far as Goliath is concerned, the DSS and LXX both say 4 cubits and a span. That is what the oldest texts say and that is what they went by when translating the LXX



Concerning the 70 vs the 75 people Jacob had, the LXX includes the sons of Joseph and their offspring.


In re Isa. 7

The word for ‘virgin’ and ‘young woman’ are the same Hebrew word ‘alma’. Alma is a betrothed virgin or one promised to be married, indicating that she is a young woman who had not had sexual intercourse.


The Greek word for virgin is ‘parthenon’


Both bethulah and Alma can be translated ‘virgin’



Mary was that young betrothed woman. Isiah calls her 'alma', as opposed to bethulah.


And what about the 650 year difference?
What about the 480 years vs the 440 years?

You can’t pretend there are no differences between the Septuagint and the Masoretic. The differences are there.

That’s why I don’t understand her question from earlier. She’s acting all surprised that there’s differences between the two. I don’t understand what she was asking. There’s obvious differences.
 
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