I changed the of meaning virgin just as you changed the meaning of wife, husband, and brothers.
The words "wife" "husband" and "brother" do not appear in the orginal text of the Bible. They are ENGLISH words that appear in ENGLISH translation. What those words MAY POSSIBLY mean in modern English has nothing to do with the text, which was (for the New Testament) written in koine Greek. It matters not a bit what some guy FEELS is IMPLIED by some modern ENGLISH word never occuring in the Bible.
Positions about the Bible are to be based on the ORIGINAL WORDS, not something one feels is implied by some modern English word in some English translation or some modern Japanese word in a Japanese translation. This is why your pastor doesn't use any translation... this is why he took years of koine Greek and biblical Hebrew in school, why such is required for ordination in most denominations. If it is the modern English that is normative, then all pastors for 2000 years around the world would learn English for Bible study, wouldn't they?
NO, I did not change the words "wife" "husband" or "brother." You just substituted one possible meaning of some modern English word (or just something you feel is IMPLIED by that English word) for the words actually stated. And thus made absurd positions (including denying the Virgin Birth, indicating that Christians all were born from the same woman, etc.).
"MARRIED." A c;laim was made that this English word mandates that the relationship has been consummated and there have been born to such children. This isn't even true in English! But I showed that the Bible TWICE (and only twice) calls Mary and Joseph "wife/husband" and in both cases, it's
BEFORE Jesus was born. So,
if it's true the word "wife" MUST mean "consummated" then Mary not a virgin when Jesus was born. Not only is the claim baseless (even in English) but the claim then denies the Virgin Birth of our Lord. IF your claim is true that "wife" and "husband" mandate lotsa sex and kids, then you must deny the Virgin Birth and the divinity of Jesus. But in koine Greek, those words do not mean that. Indeed, they don't necessarily in English either! I know lots of couples who have no children but I'm guessing have sex
. And yes, I've read that some seniors marry but never have sex.
"UNTIL.'' In 21st Century English, the word USUALLY (but not always) implies that the situation changed. But the verse in the Bible wasn't written in English or in the 21st Century. The koine Greek word does NOT - at all - imply a changed situation.
"BROTHER" In koine Greek, the word RARELY means "have the same parents." I gave biblical examples where it obviously does NOT mean share the same parents. Friend, you and I are brothers. And of course, there was no word for "step-brother" in koine Greek (such was just called "brother") so if these were children of Joseph but not Mary, there would be no other word available in all the Greek language to speak of them. And while there was a word for "cousin" (found also in the Bible) such were usually called "brother." Brother is simply a far broader word in koine Greek than in 21st Century American English, my brother.
Brother... consider.... in the Greek Orthodox Church, they know Greek. They read Greek. They speak Greek. And NEVER in all its history has even one person in the Greek Orthodox Church ever thought that Mary ceased being a virgin or she ever had other children. Is this because Greek speaking people don't know Greek? If the Greek word translated "wife" means "has sex and children" why does not one Greek speaking Greek Orthodox Christian know that? Why don't they all hold that Mary had sex and other children (and thus deny the Virgin Birth) since the word "wife" means "consummated woman with kids"? Don't they know the meaning of this Greek word? Or it doesn't matter because you feel something else is IMPLIED by an ENGLISH word? And if the Greek word for "until" MUST mean "but a 180 happened after that" why don't Greek speaking people know that? Then why for 2000 years has not one Greek speaking person believed the situation changed? Do Greek speaking people not know Greek? Or is all that matters is what you feel is implied by some English word in some English translation?
I'll ask again...
Where is the verse that states,
"Mary and Joseph consummated their relationship"?
Where is the verse that states,
"Mary had other children"?
You claim the Bible says so.... but you won't say where. Why?
Can you even find those statements in your own English translation?
All you can do is
delete the Greek.... substitute some modern
English word... appoint yourself to declare that you feel is
IMPLIED by some the English word... and then based on that, claim something you evidently know the Bible never says and not one Christian for 1800 years believed.
Blessings on your Holy Week observation...
- Josiah
.
