Why did Jesus have to die?

hobie

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Why did it require Jesus to come down and suffer the death on the cross? Why didn't God just take out the source of the rebellion, destroy Lucifer, and stop the origin of sin in its tracks?
 

JRT

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Why did it require Jesus to come down and suffer the death on the cross? Why didn't God just take out the source of the rebellion, destroy Lucifer, and stop the origin of sin in its tracks?

According to Christian mythology in prehistory some angels rebelled and were defeated and cast from heaven. But they weren't really defeated and started attacking mankind. Then at the cross Jesus defeated Satan/Lucifer/devil. But no, not really. Your question is well taken. Perhaps this might help.

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney, an unwelcome character but not an evil one. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous references to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God. To most modern Christians, the concept of the Devil is a conflation of the serpent of Genesis, the Lucifer of Isaiah and the Satan of Job. This conflation is further supplemented by lurid medieval fiction like Dante's "Inferno". Might it not be better to set these images aside and simply take responsibility for our own evil thoughts and deeds?
 

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Why did it require Jesus to come down and suffer the death on the cross? Why didn't God just take out the source of the rebellion, destroy Lucifer, and stop the origin of sin in its tracks?

Because the promise to inherit "all the works of God's hands" was given to man. The first Adam failed. The Man Jesus had to be "born of woman", be tempted and tried in the flesh and prove Himself worthy before God, even to death on a Cross, before He could become the "heir of God" and thus fulfill God's original plan for Creation. This is an extremely oversimplified explanation of why the Messiah had to be born a physical man, be tested and prove faithful. I wrote a more in-depth essay and did a Bible Study at our church on this Truth, which can be viewed here, if any are interested - https://to-him-who-overcomes.com/greatest-gift

Peace & Blessings, Wisdom & Understanding to all.
 

Andrew

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There is no redemption without the shedding of blood
 

Romanos

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Without a perfect sacrifice to atone for our sinful acts once and for all, there would have been no permanent reconciling with God as the practice of sacrifices would still have been continued. Christ removed that need.
 

Josiah

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Why did it require Jesus to come down and suffer the death on the cross? Why didn't God just take out the source of the rebellion, destroy Lucifer, and stop the origin of sin in its tracks?


There is no dogmatic answer....


THIS we know: Justification required a personal divine/human Messiah/Savior. It required His perfect life, His sacrifical death and (especially) His victorious resurrection. The Bible is clear all these were essential and necessary.

But WHY is never expressly told. The result is that during the early centuries of Christianity, various theories were developed. In classic theology, these are known as "Atonement Theories." These were all developed in the Early Church. There are 4-5 main ones, plus variations. I won't relate them here, but generally, ALL of them seem quite biblical and sound. Probably is, all of them individually seem to fall down at some point. Luther and Calvin tended to point to the "Christus Victor" view a lot, this si the view that Jesus came to defeat Satan and thus restore what God created, the point being that Jesus is the Victor over sin, death and the power of Satan. It places nearly all the emphasis on Easter. Evangelicalism tends to point mostly to the "Vicarious Atonement" view, the idea that Jesus "fills in" for us: God requires that we be perfect, we aren't, so Christ was perfect for us; God requires that sin be punished by death so Christ took that punishment upon Himself. That view places great emphasis on the perfection of Jesus and on the Cross but seems to have no use for Easter. There are other "theories" too. ALL of them have much in Scripture to support them, ALL of them seem to fall short of an "explanation." So we KNOW that Jesus (the God/Man) is absolutely necessary, He IS THE Savior.... and we know His perfect life, His death and His resurrection were ESSENTIAL.... we just aren't told exactly why, although all the "theories" developed in the Early Church help.



- Josiah




.
 

Arsenios

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Why did it require Jesus to come down and suffer the death on the cross? Why didn't God just take out the source of the rebellion, destroy Lucifer, and stop the origin of sin in its tracks?

What is this IT in your question?

Direct answer: God's Wonted Love for mankind...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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No one forced God to give His Son to die on the Cross for us...

He did so out of sheer Love for us...

Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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God always established covenant with humanity by blood. We see this immediately after the fall with God's covenant to Adam. We see it in the covenant to Abraham and Moses. We see it in the New covenant when the promised one sacrificed his pure life to take the wrath deserved for our sins.
Why did God choose blood as the covenant seal? That is purely because God is Sovereign and He chooses the means by which he establishes covenants with humanity. He does not have to explain it and...he has chosen to be silent in this matter.
 

JRT

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There is no redemption without the shedding of blood

Why not? This would seem to tie God's hands and make him less than God.
 

MennoSota

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Why not? This would seem to tie God's hands and make him less than God.
It makes God Sovereign over all creation and thus confirms His supremacy.
 

psalms 91

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Because it is the blood that covers us in His righteousness and without there is no forgiveness of sin. From Adam on through blood was required in the sacrifice for sin
 

Bluezone777

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It is because the penalty for sin is death. Jesus had no sin of His own which is why He was fit to have the sin of the world imputed to Him so when He was put to death, He paid for the sin of the world as He had no sin of his own to pay for. This is what makes Him the only one qualified to be our Savior because no other man was without sin of his or her own to atone for.

God ordained the Jews to slaughter sheep as an atoning sacrifice as a shadow for Jesus who was to come to be the final all encompassing sacrifice for all sin for all time.

For God to remain righteous while forgiving men means He must meet the demands of the law which demands that death be paid for sin which is what Jesus did when He died upon the cross. His death fulfilled the demands of the law while allowing God to now pardon sinners because those sinners He pardoned had Jesus's payment for sin imputed to them when they repented of their sin and put their faith in Jesus's payment alone for their sin.
 

Andrew

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Why not? This would seem to tie God's hands and make him less than God.
So God is a lessor god?
It's also circumstance, Jesus came as God incarnate and claimed to be the messiah and for this he was considered a blasphemer and was crucified... It's also the appropriate means of why we are also crucified, buried (in Christ) and raised a new creation, he paid the price for us so that we may live and not just in this life but in the next world.
 

Arsenios

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So God is a lessor god?
It's also circumstance, Jesus came as God incarnate and claimed to be the messiah and for this he was considered a blasphemer and was crucified... It's also the appropriate means of why we are also crucified, buried (in Christ) and raised a new creation, he paid the price for us so that we may live and not just in this life but in the next world.

I think Christ came at the precisely exact moment in human history for His (undercover) Mission...

He slipped in avoiding detection and destruction which destroyed thousands of children trying to kill him...

He returned in the guise of a younger brother of Joseph's family by his new bride...

He worked as a carpenter following His "father"...

And He kept pretty much hidden during His ministry...

And when discovered He was Crucified...

But too late!

And His Body is upon the earth...

And the world cannot overcome it...

But it tries and tries...

The Serpent pursues the Woman to kill Her...

To no avail...


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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I think Christ came at the precisely exact moment in human history for His (undercover) Mission...

He slipped in avoiding detection and destruction which destroyed thousands of children trying to kill him...

He returned in the guise of a younger brother of Joseph's family by his new bride...

He worked as a carpenter following His "father"...

And He kept pretty much hidden during His ministry...

And when discovered He was Crucified...

But too late!

And His Body is upon the earth...

And the world cannot overcome it...

But it tries and tries...

The Serpent pursues the Woman to kill Her...

To no avail...


Arsenios
There was no disguise. Jesus is the promised one. He came. He did what God promised. No human thwarted God's plan. No human "found him out" in his covert mission. Your narrative is so man-centered, Arsenios.
 

Andrew

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I think Christ came at the precisely exact moment in human history for His (undercover) Mission...

He slipped in avoiding detection and destruction which destroyed thousands of children trying to kill him...

He returned in the guise of a younger brother of Joseph's family by his new bride...

He worked as a carpenter following His "father"...

And He kept pretty much hidden during His ministry...

And when discovered He was Crucified...

But too late!

And His Body is upon the earth...

And the world cannot overcome it...

But it tries and tries...

The Serpent pursues the Woman to kill Her...

To no avail...


Arsenios
I also believe His timing was predestined and especially appropriate! He certainly did ride in on a donkey instead of a white horse, it's remarkably beautiful!
 

Andrew

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There was no disguise. Jesus is the promised one. He came. He did what God promised. No human thwarted God's plan. No human "found him out" in his covert mission. Your narrative is so man-centered, Arsenios.
Not a disguise but God intended that Christ be born in that era of time, no earlier and no later. It's understandable why God did this, "History" was just beginning and of course no one would keep record of a low class carpenter thus no historical evidence THUS faith! Leave the historians to Muhammed, he was recorded well. We have no records of Jesus from 12 to 30ish
 

atpollard

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To fulfill Genesis 3:15 and Genesis 22:15-18.

Was the seed of woman bruised?
Was the head of the serpent crushed?
Were all nations blessed through Abraham’s seed (singular)?
Could God have been capable of less self-sacrifice than Abraham?
 

MennoSota

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Not a disguise but God intended that Christ be born in that era of time, no earlier and no later. It's understandable why God did this, "History" was just beginning and of course no one would keep record of a low class carpenter thus no historical evidence THUS faith! Leave the historians to Muhammed, he was recorded well. We have no records of Jesus from 12 to 30ish
Actually, there is less historical support for Muhammad than for Jesus. From a historical standing, Jesus is the best recorded figure in all ancient history. It is remarkably well documented.
 
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