Can the Faith of Parents Save Their Children?

[MennoSota]

It is people in Christ who are discipling the nations, Menno...



Did he give Saul the Holy Spirit?



Indeed he did...



God did it all, through Ananias...

And before that, directly so, on the road to Damaskos...

The ekonomia of God's Salvation works through people...

Direct Salvation by God is the exception...

Christ did not come into His creation so that God could save people apart from people...

He came in fallen human flesh that we should do His works...

Discipling the nations, teaching and baptizing...

"As many as have been Baptized into Christ have put on Christ..."



Paul is telling the truth...

Yet you and I do not know which of us God has chosen...

We know that he has chosen those in Him...

He chose Israel...

Got them out of Egypt...

And because of their sins...

They died in the wilderness...

Never entering the Promised Land...

That is the Type...

We are the anti-Type...

Not all who cry Lord Lord will be saved...


Arsenios

We go. We call people to reconcile with God. God either opens their heart to be reconciled or he let's them remain in rebellion with a hard heart.
Most people, especially in the US, do not realize or accept that they are criminals, rebels and terrorists in God's creation. They do not know God's commands and therefore do not know that they have broken God's commands. Thus, they don't think they need reconciliation.
To be reconciled you must first know that the relationship with God is broken due to your own disobedience. The evangelist in the video was attempting to make this clear to the woman. She would have none of it. She refused to acknowledge she is a criminal according to God's law. She hated the thought of looking at herself according to her rebellion. She just wanted to look at all the times she didn't break the law, which is likely more than the times she did break God's law. However, how many laws must you break before you are guilty of breaking a law? The answer is...one. Break one law and you are guilty. You are a lawbreaker, a criminal. When you are brought before a just Judge, the Judge will...indeed must...find you guilty of lawbreaking. The Bible says "the wages of sin is death." This is the outcome for just one law being broken.
Now, in the video we can witness the woman breaking multiple laws in her conversation with the evangelist. The evangelist may have broken some as well.
What is the difference between the woman and the evangelist? Both have broken God's law. Both will be condemned as lawbreakers by God, the holy Judge.
The difference is that one has been reconciled by Jesus atonement, through faith, while the other is still in rebellion with no reconciliation being procurred.
Ananias was simply an ambassador of reconciliation. He did what his King told him to do.
The evangelist is simply an ambassador of reconciliation. He did what the King told him to do.
With Ananias, Paul was brought to reconciliation. With the evangelist, the woman walked away in rebellion against God.

 

[MennoSota]

First I'll start with the fact that fundamentalists have a hard time with scripture verses and subjects such as this because the bible wasn't written to, for or by fundamentalist and therefore wasn't ever intended to be understood within that paradigm.

Anyway here are some scriptures that need to be collectively examined in order to glean an understanding of the concept being taught by scripture.

2 Timothy 1:5

I am reminded of your sincere faith, which first lived in your grandmother Lois and in your mother Eunice and, I am persuaded, now lives in you also.

1 Corinthians 7:14

For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

1 Timothy 2:15

But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

Acts 16:15

When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. "If you consider me a believer in the Lord," she said, "come and stay at my house." And she persuaded us.

Acts 16:33

At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.

What I see scripture and the teaching of the church historically is that faith by grace is transmitted both by word and sacrament. They are highly effectual particularly to those closest to a believer but can be ultimately rejected by the recipient.

Just my 2 cents.

Tigger, being set apart (sanctified) and being made holy (set apart and sactified) are not necessarily tied with salvation. This is of particular note in 1 Corinthians 7 as the topic is regarding whether to live with an unbelieving spouse or divorce.

1 Corinthians 7:12-15 To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

None of your verses has anything to do with sacraments, nor do any teach that another person's faith will save someone else from eternal condemnation when that unbeliever has never been reconciled with God.

 

[Tigger]

In fact that’s why Orthodox Christians not only baptize their infants but also commune them with the Eucharist.

 

[hedrick]

I'm inclined to stay away from detailed theology and say that parents can't ultimately save their children, but they can give them a good head start.

 

[MennoSota]

In fact that’s why Orthodox Christians not only baptize their infants but also commune them with the Eucharist.

It makes the parent's feel good. It does nothing to actually save them.

I'm inclined to stay away from detailed theology and say that parents can't ultimately save their children, but they can give them a good head start.

Scripture tells us to train up our child in the way of the Lord. We point them toward the Savior. But, only God can actually save them by his gracious choice, apart from our works. God bestows his grace upon whom he wills.
Many Godly parents have seen their children walk in rebellion against God. Many rebellious parents have seen their children changed by grace through faith. This is the mysterious work of God.

 

[Arsenios]

Being set apart (sanctified)
and being made holy
(set apart and sactified)
are not necessarily tied
with salvation.

This had to be a typo, right???

Or is Salvation something the Holy ones of God might not have???

Just a slip of the digit, yes?

Had to be...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

[/B]

This had to be a typo, right???

Or is Salvation something the Holy ones of God might not have???

Just a slip of the digit, yes?

Had to be...


Arsenios

If by "the holy ones" you are talking about angels and those whom God has place in Christ, by his gracious choice, apart from their merit, then the holy ones are saved. If by "the holy ones" you are referring to people your church venerates, those people may or may not be holy as some may never have been in Christ since they attempted to merit their salvation by their works, apart from grace.
What we can state is that each human will stand before God, condemned in her/his sins. Pardon of sins is entirely up to God based upon his choice to pardon or not pardon.
You works will not save you, let alone other family members or friends. Dipping a kid in water and saying an incantation over them will not save them nor grant them pardon by your actions on their behalf.
We can certainly petition God to extend grace to our loved ones. We can ask him to provide unmerited favor to them, but God is not obligated to act. We stand, completely at the mercy of a holy God.

 

[atpollard]

How did David’s faith do as a protective covering and blessing over his family?
What about the faith of Adam bringing blessings on Abel?

 

[RichWh1]

How did David’s faith do as a protective covering and blessing over his family?
What about the faith of Adam bringing blessings on Abel?

Their faith brought a blessing, not salvation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[atpollard]

Their faith brought a blessing, not salvation.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What blessing did the faith of King David (a man after God’s heart) bring on each of his children?

“I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.” - GOD

 

[Josiah]

“I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion.” - GOD

The Last Plague (SO important in Judaism and Christianity) OBVIOUSLY and UNDENIABLY shows that children (of ALL ages - one hour old or 100 years old) can be bless as a result of the PARENT'S FAITH and obedience, whether the child has faith or not. God's mercy, grace, blessings, even salvation from death, can be the result of the faith OF THE PARENTS, irregardless of the faith of the one being blessed.


In the West (so impacted by the uber-individualism of the Roman Empire), there is an assumption of extreme individualism that simply is not biblical. And we often find (even in the most surprising places) a profound denial of the soverignty of God, extreme limitations placed on God, ruled made by man that God is told to obey, all that are aimed at disconnecting people and limiting faith. IMO, this Passover text - one of the most important in the Bible - destroys those limitations and separations. It specifically notes that the faith and obedience of PARENTS can - and in this case universally DID - result in the mercy and grace of God, even from death itself - not the faith of the child but rather the faith of the parents.


We have the very modern and western arguments that each must create faith themselves and that those under some never-stated age simply cannot do that, and they so limited God that He can't create it or give it to them (so limited is He, so impotent is He). The whole argument, of course, must completely divorce children from their parents and community, embracing extreme individualism, each standing ALONE before a very limited and largely impotent god. The Passover and the Lamb is an example IN THE BIBLE that completely destroys that modern, western mindset. Here, the WHOLE POINT is that children (of ALL ages) are saved from death via the faith, trust and obedience OF THE PARENTS.




.

 

[MennoSota]

The Last Plague (SO important in Judaism and Christianity) OBVIOUSLY and UNDENIABLY shows that children (of ALL ages - one hour old or 100 years old) can be bless as a result of the PARENT'S FAITH and obedience, whether the child has faith or not. God's mercy, grace, blessings, even salvation from death, can be the result of the faith OF THE PARENTS, irregardless of the faith of the one being blessed.


In the West (so impacted by the uber-individualism of the Roman Empire), there is an assumption of extreme individualism that simply is not biblical. And we often find (even in the most surprising places) a profound denial of the soverignty of God, extreme limitations placed on God, ruled made by man that God is told to obey, all that are aimed at disconnecting people and limiting faith. IMO, this Passover text - one of the most important in the Bible - destroys those limitations and separations. It specifically notes that the faith and obedience of PARENTS can - and in this case universally DID - result in the mercy and grace of God, even from death itself - not the faith of the child but rather the faith of the parents.


We have the very modern and western arguments that each must create faith themselves and that those under some never-stated age simply cannot do that, and they so limited God that He can't create it or give it to them (so limited is He, so impotent is He). The whole argument, of course, must completely divorce children from their parents and community, embracing extreme individualism, each standing ALONE before a very limited and largely impotent god. The Passover and the Lamb is an example IN THE BIBLE that completely destroys that modern, western mindset. Here, the WHOLE POINT is that children (of ALL ages) are saved from death via the faith, trust and obedience OF THE PARENTS.




.

Blessing and eternal salvation are two different things.
When parents don't do drugs or abuse alcohol they bless the children by their actions. They don't save their children.

 

[Albion]

The idea that the faith of the parents can bless their children is fairly common, but the idea that it can be transferred to the children, resulting in them being saved is something else.

 

[atpollard]

The Last Plague (SO important in Judaism and Christianity) OBVIOUSLY and UNDENIABLY shows that children (of ALL ages - one hour old or 100 years old) can be bless as a result of the PARENT'S FAITH and obedience, whether the child has faith or not. God's mercy, grace, blessings, even salvation from death, can be the result of the faith OF THE PARENTS, irregardless of the faith of the one being blessed.


In the West (so impacted by the uber-individualism of the Roman Empire), there is an assumption of extreme individualism that simply is not biblical. And we often find (even in the most surprising places) a profound denial of the soverignty of God, extreme limitations placed on God, ruled made by man that God is told to obey, all that are aimed at disconnecting people and limiting faith. IMO, this Passover text - one of the most important in the Bible - destroys those limitations and separations. It specifically notes that the faith and obedience of PARENTS can - and in this case universally DID - result in the mercy and grace of God, even from death itself - not the faith of the child but rather the faith of the parents.


We have the very modern and western arguments that each must create faith themselves and that those under some never-stated age simply cannot do that, and they so limited God that He can't create it or give it to them (so limited is He, so impotent is He). The whole argument, of course, must completely divorce children from their parents and community, embracing extreme individualism, each standing ALONE before a very limited and largely impotent god. The Passover and the Lamb is an example IN THE BIBLE that completely destroys that modern, western mindset. Here, the WHOLE POINT is that children (of ALL ages) are saved from death via the faith, trust and obedience OF THE PARENTS.
.

You might want to reread the actual account of what happened in the tenth plague. Your description of events does not match the events from scripture. EVERY parent did not slay a lamb for EVERY firstborn child (as your conclusions imply). That is not what was commanded by God and that is not what happened.

 

[pinacled]

.


Can the Faith of Parents Save Their Children?


IMO, no. Faith is the free gift of God given personally and individually, the free gift of God that embraces the mercy and grace and blessings of God. Faith is like the hand that receives the gift. But no, it cannot receive a gift for OTHERS (whether a child or anyone else).


HOWEVER.....


The faith of parents CAN be the reason their child is blessed.


Consider a biblical example. the last of the "Ten Plagues" (Exodus 11 - 12).


Now remember, this would be a KEYSTONE event for the Hebrews and is seen by Christians as also a type of Christ and the Cross....

God's JUDGEMENT (the Law) is that the first born of of people and animals would die.

God's SALVATION (the Gospel) is that there is a way for the faithful to avoid this for their firstborn child (regardless of age)...

The PARENTS are instructed to take a "spotless lamb" (which Christians view as a type of Christ), it is to killed (without bones broken), and the blood placed on the door frames of their house. Christians see all of this as types and as very important!

When God "sees" that the parents believed and did as instructed, THEIR CHILD would be saved, THEIR CHILD would live.

This event - which the Jewish Passover commemorates to this day - is all about God responding to the faith of the PARENTS by saving their CHILD (regardless of age).

Now note, the child need not believe or do anything at all - whether the child be one hour hold or 80 years old - the entire blessing is in response to the faith of the PARENTS, faith that believes and obeys.

Did the faith of the parents save their child? Technically, no. But the faith of the parents was the reason God saved their child.

This event - SO important to both Jews and Christians - is rich and wonderful and very stressed, with several important truths. But this is ONE of them: God can bless children BECAUSE OF THE FAITH OF THE PARENTS.


Agree?



.

Amen, Amen
"Raise a child in the way...."

With a purity of wisdom from above.

 

[Andrew]

I suppose it doesn't hurt, especially if it had worried the parents. My niece however is not allowed to be baptised per her father unless she comes to the age where the mormon church baptises her... I lean all the way to the Catholic baptism which is on her mothers side (my sis), they are divorced and he must have some kind of strong hold on her to be only baptised by Mormons... I think she will be confused and made indifferent toward both religions until the right time comes for her to believe and repent and be baptised into Jesus on her own accord.

 

[Arsenios]

I suppose it doesn't hurt, especially if it had worried the parents. My niece however is not allowed to be baptised per her father unless she comes to the age where the mormon church baptises her... I lean all the way to the Catholic baptism which is on her mothers side (my sis), they are divorced and he must have some kind of strong hold on her to be only baptised by Mormons... I think she will be confused and made indifferent toward both religions until the right time comes for her to believe and repent and be baptised into Jesus on her own accord.

May she find her way, my Brother...

Your prayers are the key...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The idea that the faith of the parents can bless their children is fairly common,
but
the idea that it can be transferred to the children, resulting in them being saved
is something else.

Faith is used iwith two meanings:

1st - The Faith of Christ which He discipled to His disciples who later became Apostles...

2nd - The personal faith of disciples acquiring the Faith of Christ...

It is this second meaning which is normally misunderstood as the meaning of faith when Scripture is cited stating: "For by Grace are we Saved through faith..." This Scripture actually says: "For by the Grace [of God] are we Saved through the Faith [of Jesus Christ]." Those two definite articles - the and the are almost always omitted in English translations... Their meaning is that it is a specific Grace that saves man, and it is a specific Faith through which Salvation occurs... eg It is not through one's personal fervor of belief that God Saves a man, but through his embracing of the Faith Christ discipled to His disciples... The acquisition of the Faith of Christ is by degrees, for in it we are Baptized into Christ and then grow toward maturity in the Faith... Our acquisition of that Faith, you see, is progressive, and the prayers of the righteous avail much... eg The prayers of the not so righteous avail not so much... Sometimes I want to change my name to Mr. Notzo...

BECAUSE:

Eph 4:4-8
There is One Body, and One Spirit,
Even as ye are called
in One Hope of your calling;
One Lord,
One Faith,
One Baptism,
One God and Father of all,
Who is above all,
And through all,
And in you all.

But unto every one of us is given Grace
According to the measure of the Gift of Christ.
Wherefore he saith,
When He ascended up on high,
He led captivity captive,
And He gave Gifts
Unto men.

ONE Faith, you see...
The Faith Christ discipled and is discipling...
Not many personal faiths...
Which He honors according to each person...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The idea that the faith of the parents can bless their children is fairly common,
but
the idea that it can be transferred to the children, resulting in them being saved
is something else.

Faith is used with two meanings:

1st - The Faith of Christ which He discipled to His disciples who later became Apostles...

2nd - The personal faith of disciples acquiring the Faith of Christ...

So the parents' job is to disciple their children in the Faith of Christ through which they will be saved...

The parents cannot Save their Children directly - Only God can do that...

But apart from being discipled in the Faith of Christ...

Salvation is hard to find...

It is this second meaning which is normally misunderstood as the meaning of faith when Scripture is cited stating: "For by Grace are we Saved through faith..." This Scripture actually says: "For by the Grace [of God] are we Saved through the Faith [of Jesus Christ]." Those two definite articles - the and the are almost always omitted in English translations... Their meaning is that it is a specific Grace that saves man, and it is a specific Faith through which Salvation occurs... eg It is not through one's personal fervor of belief that God Saves a man, but through his embracing of the Faith Christ discipled to His disciples... The acquisition of the Faith of Christ is by degrees, for in it we are Baptized into Christ and then grow toward maturity in the Faith... Our acquisition of that Faith, you see, is progressive, and the prayers of the righteous avail much... eg The prayers of the not so righteous avail not so much... Sometimes I want to change my name to Mr. Notzo...

BECAUSE:

Eph 4:4-8
There is One Body, and One Spirit,
Even as ye are called
in One Hope of your calling;
One Lord,
One Faith,
One Baptism,
One God and Father of all,
Who is above all,
And through all,
And in you all.

But unto every one of us is given Grace
According to the measure of the Gift of Christ.
Wherefore he saith,
When He ascended up on high,
He led captivity captive,
And He gave Gifts
Unto men.

ONE Faith, you see...
The Faith Christ discipled and is discipling...
Not many personal faiths...
Which He honors according to each person...


Arsenios

 

[Albion]

But one cannot have Faith for someone else.