Regeneration

Josiah

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MoreCoffee

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Being born from above means we had no role in it except to receive. It's all in God's timing and by God's will.

That is likely but does not necessarily follow unless you milk the simile for all it's worth and doing that is likely not what Jesus intended.

Lutherans! ha! Always pressing their theology :p
 

YourTruthGod

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YourTruthGod

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Being born from above means we had no role in it except to receive. It's all in God's timing and by God's will.

No way does it mean what you say. No way ever, not with God.
 

MennoSota

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That is likely but does not necessarily follow unless you milk the simile for all it's worth and doing that is likely not what Jesus intended.

Lutherans! ha! Always pressing their theology :p

Catholics! ha! Never having any theology.
 

YourTruthGod

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God's covenant of life is one-sided.

No way, where do you get that imaginary beliefs? Not from the scriptures. God is not ironic. And, God doesn't say one thing but mean something else.

God doesn't tell us to repent of sins to get saved and doesn't mean it because He knows no one can repent.

God's word isn't deceitful!
 

Josiah

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God doesn't tell us to repent of sins to get saved and doesn't mean it because He knows no one can repent.


When you make up your mind, let us know.... Sometimes you say we "GET saved" (passive) and then you insist the dead, unregenrate, atheistic enemy of God save himself because he adequately has jumped through whatever hoop you are thinking about at the time. Or maybe your theology is that God can only save the saveable and the dead make themselves saveable by adequately jumping through hoops X,Y,Z?

In any case, the Bible teaches that Jesus SAVES. Not that self does, and not that self makes it possible for Jesus to save us (weak and inadequate as He is). The Bible teaches that God GIVES life to those who have no life, not that God helps those who help themselves or that God adds life to those who have already given it to themselves.



Ephesians 2:8-9

John 6:63

1 Corinthians 12:3

1 Corinthians 2:14

Ephesians 2:1

Romans 8:7

Ezekiel 37:1-14

Ezekiel 37:25-27

2 Corinthians 4:6

John 3:5

John 3:6-8

Romans 8:6-13


God GIVES salvation, God GIVES faith, God GIVES life (spiritual and physical).

As God GIVES faith, that faith embraces/apprehends all the gifts from God - His grace, His justification, His Holy Spirit... and life itself.

Soli Deo Gloria



See https://christianityhaven.com/showthread.php?6902-Is-Jesus-The-Savior





.
 

YourTruthGod

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I believe in a God who is limited to doing as he pleases without needing my permission ...
God wants us to love Him on our own and not because He MAKES US DO IT without our knowing and wanting.

What kind of love would that be?!!!
[Rom 9:14-18 NASB] 14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."

That is about God allowing the Gentiles to get saved, even though they never obeyed the old law!

16 So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

GOD SAYS HE CHOOSES TO HAVE MERCY ON ALL.

However, not all will DO WHAT HE SAYS TO DO TO GET MERCY.

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


Now that you have read that, and believed that, now you should believe the truth that ALL have the chance for God's mercy but now only those WHO BELIEVE AND REPENT of their sins to Him through Jesus will be forgiven.

17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

And God only TEMPORARILY hardened SOME Jews, and THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE to come to God to get saved IF THEY DON'T persist in UNBELIEF.

ROMANS 11:23! Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
 

YourTruthGod

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What is man’s part in the Adamic and Noahic Covenants?
What do we have to do to maintain the rainbow?

What did man have to do to be saved from the flood?

What is man going to have to do to be saved from the fire?
 

YourTruthGod

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Right, God only saves the Elect (His Sheep)
God TELLS YOU HOW TO BECOME A SHEEP.
YOU, a believer, came to his call did you not?
God calls everyone.
You were told plainly by God, but you refuse to believe it.

God says PLAINLY that He desires all to repent and be saved.

What do you think? Do you think that God prefers the wicked to keep sinning!

You have to be able to be reasoned with.

God says let's reason together.
 

YourTruthGod

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No one is REGENERATED with the Holy Spirit before they have faith.

No one is given faith to make them believe and obey.

No one is given the Holy Spirit until they have faith with obedience.

Faith comes from hearing, being taught, persuaded, and convinced.
 

Josiah

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See post 127 for the Christian view.
 

atpollard

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God wants us to love Him on our own and not because He MAKES US DO IT without our knowing and wanting.

What kind of love would that be?!!!


That is about God allowing the Gentiles to get saved, even though they never obeyed the old law!



GOD SAYS HE CHOOSES TO HAVE MERCY ON ALL.

However, not all will DO WHAT HE SAYS TO DO TO GET MERCY.

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.


Now that you have read that, and believed that, now you should believe the truth that ALL have the chance for God's mercy but now only those WHO BELIEVE AND REPENT of their sins to Him through Jesus will be forgiven.



And God only TEMPORARILY hardened SOME Jews, and THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE to come to God to get saved IF THEY DON'T persist in UNBELIEF.

ROMANS 11:23! Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
At this point you are not arguing with me, you are explaining why the Apostle Paul didn’t mean what he wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and claiming that one verse in a paragraph of scripture contradicts the rest of the verses surrounding it.

Good luck explaining how Paul misunderstood God, but fortunately we have you to set us straight about what God really meant. :eatpopcorn:
 

MoreCoffee

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No one is REGENERATED with the Holy Spirit before they have faith.

No one is given faith to make them believe and obey.

No one is given the Holy Spirit until they have faith with obedience.

Faith comes from hearing, being taught, persuaded, and convinced.

Something like that.

Faith comes from hearing the word of Christ. Evidently hearing in this context implies believing too. But the passage says only hearing. That's oddly imprecise.
 

atpollard

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No one is REGENERATED with the Holy Spirit before they have faith.
[1Co 2:14 NASB] 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
[2Co 4:3-6 NASB] 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
Only those with spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear CAN have faith ... otherwise the Gospel is just foolishness to them.



No one is given faith to make them believe and obey.
[Jhn 6:44-45 NASB] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

[Phl 2:12-13 NASB] 12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure.
God draws, teaches and is at work in us both to “will and to work”.


No one is given the Holy Spirit until they have faith with obedience.
[Act 10:44-48 NASB] 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we [did,] can he?" 48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.
Holy Spirit first, THEN obedience.



Faith comes from hearing, being taught, persuaded, and convinced.
[Eph 2:8 NASB] 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God;
[Rom 12:3 NASB] 3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.
Faith is a gift from God.


... liar, liar. Pants on fire.
 

atpollard

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God TELLS YOU HOW TO BECOME A SHEEP.

[Jhn 10:26-29 NASB] 26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand.

You become one of Jesus’ sheep when the FATHER gives you to the SON.
 

YourTruthGod

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[Jhn 10:26-29 NASB] 26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand.

You become one of Jesus’ sheep when the FATHER gives you to the SON.

That was when Jesus was on the earth and NO ONE who did not ALREADY belong to God by faith could come to him, until he is crucified.
 

MoreCoffee

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Given that faith comes from hearing what else might come from hearing the gospel message of Jesus Christ?

Do you think that maybe obedience might?
 

YourTruthGod

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[1Co 2:14 NASB] 14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
That is about men only wanting to please their flesh, they cannot accept it that they have to stop their sinning.
[2Co 4:3-6 NASB] 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
They are blinded by sin; which further proves what I just said.
5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
Only those with spiritual eyes to see and ears to hear CAN have faith ... otherwise the Gospel is just foolishness to them.
Those who want more than to just please their flesh come to Jesus to be saved.

[Jhn 6:44-45 NASB] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
That is about when Jesus walked the earth.
Jesus only came for those who ALREADY belonged to God by faith.
Use your brain and reason with me for a minute…you used a scripture to try and prove something…think more about it…when Jesus came---HE CALLED EVERYONE BESIDES THE LOST SHEEP PIGS AND DOGS!
I am trying to help you!
 

YourTruthGod

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Given that faith comes from hearing what else might come from hearing the gospel message of Jesus Christ?

Do you think that maybe obedience might?

Yeah, they say we cannot believe or obey until after we are saved.
 
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