Regeneration

[MoreCoffee]

Jesus saves us all on his own, and he tells us why he saves those he saves. Jesus saves those who obey him.

Does he save those who never heard about him too?

 

[YourTruthGod]

Does he save those who never heard about him too?

After they die they will probably have the chance to repent if they never heard of him.

As for their being saved while on earth and not knowing him, how would that be possible?

 

[MoreCoffee]

After they die they will probably have the chance to repent if they never heard of him.

Why do you think that? Why do you think that after death some people have a second chance, so to speak, and can repent after death?

As for their being saved while on earth and not knowing him, how would that be possible?

I do not know and I do not need to know but I can entertain the thought that God who is Love might be merciful and save those who never had an opportunity to know the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Why do you think that? Why do you think that after death some people have a second chance, so to speak, and can repent after death?

I think that because all must have the chance to repent or reject Jesus. And, when Jesus died on the cross, he preached the gospel to the spirits in hell, so that they could live in their spirit according to God.

See 1 Peter 3:18-19; 1 Peter 4:5-6; and Romans 14:9.

I do not know and I do not need to know but I can entertain the thought that God who is Love might be merciful and save those who never had an opportunity to know the Lord Jesus Christ.

Well you said if a person never heard of Jesus, so I'm thinking you mean are they saved in this life while they don't even know Jesus. If that is what you mean then I would have to say no because to know God and for God to know you is to obey Jesus' teachings.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

2 John 1:6 The love of which I am speaking consists in our living in obedience to God's commands. God's command is that you should live in obedience to what you all heard from the very beginning.

1 John 5:3 Love for God means obedience to His commands; and His commands are not irksome.

1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God;

1 John 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

1 John 2:4 Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.


We can see from the scriptures that knowing God is to obey Jesus' teachings.

 

[Josiah]

I think that because all must have the chance to repent or reject Jesus. And, when Jesus died on the cross, he preached the gospel to the spirits in hell, so that they could live in their spirit according to God.

See 1 Peter 3:18-19; 1 Peter 4:5-6; and Romans 14:9.


Well you said if a person never heard of Jesus, so I'm thinking you mean are they saved in this life while they don't even know Jesus. If that is what you mean then I would have to say no because to know God and for God to know you is to obey Jesus' teachings.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

2 John 1:6 The love of which I am speaking consists in our living in obedience to God's commands. God's command is that you should live in obedience to what you all heard from the very beginning.

1 John 5:3 Love for God means obedience to His commands; and His commands are not irksome.

1 Corinthians 8:3 But whoever loves God is known by God;

1 John 5:20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

1 John 2:4 Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.


We can see from the scriptures that knowing God is to obey Jesus' teachings.

You constantly confuse what the DEAD unregenerate enemies of God MUST (somehow!) DO to merit and cause their own salvation with what CHRISTIANS - those given life, those given faith, those given the Holy Spirit, those given justification) are to do. By totally confusing these, you are preaching the antithesis of the Christian Gospel, a godless, Christless, Crossless, merciless message all based on what the DEAD lifeless one must (somehow) DO.

 

[Arsenios]

You constantly confuse what the DEAD unregenerate enemies of God MUST (somehow!) DO to merit and cause their own salvation with what CHRISTIANS - those given life, those given faith, those given the Holy Spirit, those given justification) are to do. By totally confusing these, you are preaching the antithesis of the Christian Gospel, a godless, Christless, Crossless, merciless message all based on what the DEAD lifeless one must (somehow) DO.

A covenant is an agreement of actions...

You do this...

God does that...

You repent...

God saves...

Pretty straightforward actually...

The new Covenant is the Covenant of the Body and Blood of our Lord...

We obey Christ's Holy Commandments...

Christ Saves our souls...


Arsenios

 

[Lamb]

A covenant is an agreement of actions...

You do this...

God does that...

You repent...

God saves...

Pretty straightforward actually...

The new Covenant is the Covenant of the Body and Blood of our Lord...

We obey Christ's Holy Commandments...

Christ Saves our souls...


Arsenios

Have you heard about a will or testament that is a "unilateral covenant"? That's the covenant that God has with believers for salvation. God has managed to fulfill both sides so that we inherit eternal life.

 

[Arsenios]

Have you heard about a will or testament that is a "unilateral covenant"? That's the covenant that God has with believers for salvation. God has managed to fulfill both sides so that we inherit eternal life.

Is it mentioned in the Bible?

I mean, in the Jewish Faith, one can unilaterally consecrate themselves to God...

Is that what you mean?


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

Have you heard about a will or testament that is a "unilateral covenant"? That's the covenant that God has with believers for salvation. God has managed to fulfill both sides so that we inherit eternal life.

No such thing.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You constantly confuse what the DEAD unregenerate enemies of God MUST (somehow!) DO to merit and cause their own salvation with what CHRISTIANS - those given life, those given faith, those given the Holy Spirit, those given justification) are to do. By totally confusing these, you are preaching the antithesis of the Christian Gospel, a godless, Christless, Crossless, merciless message all based on what the DEAD lifeless one must (somehow) DO.

God doesn't save unbelievers. That is a made up doctrine which you preach.

 

[Andrew]

God doesn't save unbelievers. That is a made up doctrine which you preach.

Right, God only saves the Elect (His Sheep)
YOU, a believer, came to his call did you not?
You did not just wake up one day and think "I'm in the mood to believe some random words that tell me what to do"... GOD INTERVENED in your life! He CHOSE you!
He did not MAKE you believe, he KNEW you were going to, he knew MANY were going to believe and he ORDAINED good works for YOU to do to GLORIFY HIM among His other Sheep.
God is Sovereign! YOU are blessed by GOD, and your obedience is the EVIDENCE of FAITH that He has BLESSED *YOU* with as a FREE Gift! (Free of "charge")
When you realize this (and either you do now or you don't just yet) you will understand that obedience comes from the Holy Spirit in you that came directly from God! This is called being a Christian (IN Christ) and it confirms your election that....
A. You Believe
B. You are Obedient
C. You have the Holiest Spirit dwelling in you directing you toward perfection (saving grace)

Rejoice my friend

 

[Josiah]

A covenant is an agreement of actions...

You do this...

God does that...

You repent...

God saves...

Pretty straightforward actually...

The new Covenant is the Covenant of the Body and Blood of our Lord...

We obey Christ's Holy Commandments...

Christ Saves our souls...


Arsenios

God's covenant of life is one-sided. As the ancient Creed states, "... I/we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life." Not, ".... I believe in me, the Lord and thief of life."

Do you proclaim the Nicene Creed? Do you believe the part where you state that you believe that the Holy Spirit GIVES life? Or does the Orthodox Church believe that God only OFFERS it to those who are able to steal it out of His hands (which is no one)?

 

[Josiah]

God doesn't save unbelievers.

Right. Thus the problem with your theology: DEAD atheistic enemies of God saving self by obeying God.

 

[atpollard]

Do you really not know where the scriptures are about 'lost sheep' and 'old covenant' and 'faith'?

Why do you come acting like you can teach when you don't know where those scriptures are?

I know that you did not bother to even post the Book, Chapter and Verse of any scripture in your monument to your personal opinions.
I know that a word search for “lost sheep of Israel” returned a verse in a chapter that utterly refutes your “personal opinion”.
I know that posting your personal opinions is NOT exegesis of any of the verses that I posted and referenced and explained that you claim with empty, unsupported rhetoric that I do not understand.
I know that you were supposed to be proving that I had misunderstood scripture using the context of the verses (you have said nothing about the context) or using the original language (you have said nothing about the original language) or by referencing some prior theologian (you have appealed to no authority except yourself).

So I may be the worst teacher in the entire Christian world, but I know that you are avoiding anything close to exegesis or discussion or even teaching ... you are not really even talking, you are just making a lot of noise and saying nothing. Who cares what your unsupported opinions are? Create a blog if you just want to hear yourself talk.

PS. If you bothered to present a specific scripture, we could read it in context and expose your “verse mining” for the fraud that it is.

For example ... [Mat 15:24 NASB] 24 But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Where was this spoken and to what group of people?
What was happening before and after this?
Was Jesus really only sent to Israel?
WHAT IS THE CONTEXT!

 

[atpollard]

A covenant is an agreement of actions...

You do this...

God does that...

You repent...

God saves...

Pretty straightforward actually...

The new Covenant is the Covenant of the Body and Blood of our Lord...

We obey Christ's Holy Commandments...

Christ Saves our souls...


Arsenios

What is man’s part in the Adamic and Noahic Covenants?
What do we have to do to maintain the rainbow?

 

[atpollard]

All the scriptures about JESUS ARE TO ALL.
What kind of limited God do you think we have?

I believe in a God who is limited to doing as he pleases without needing my permission ...

[Rom 9:14-18 NASB] 14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it [does] not [depend] on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

[Rom 9:19-26 NASB] 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And [He did so] to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 [even] us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. 25 As He says also in Hosea, "I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,' AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'" 26 "AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD."

 

[Arsenios]

What is man’s part in the Adamic and Noahic Covenants?

What "Adamic and Noanic Covenants"???

What do we have to do to maintain the rainbow?

The rainbow is the Sign of the Promise...

I am unaware of any covenant regarding the rainbow...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

God's covenant of life is one-sided.

Is this what you mean?

And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.


Arsenios

 

[MoreCoffee]

How did you get 118 and more posts out of "regeneration" when all it means is "born again"?

It can't be that complicated a concept to grasp. Even Nicodemus grasped it eventually.

 

[Lamb]

How did you get 118 and more posts out of "regeneration" when all it means is "born again"?

It can't be that complicated a concept to grasp. Even Nicodemus grasped it eventually.

Being born from above means we had no role in it except to receive. It's all in God's timing and by God's will.