PERFECT LOVE

[atpollard]

I think Peter is getting too harsh a judgement from Christians. There is more than a bit of hypocrisy there.

Peter said at the last supper (as did all of the disciples) that he would die for Jesus.
Peter stayed up all night with Jesus at Gethsemane, after having been up all day and traveling the night before (giving in to exhaustion as Jesus prayed).
Peter made good on his pledge to die for Jesus by attacking the equivalent of a squad of armed Marines ... one does not survive attacking an army unit.
Peter was REBUKED by Jesus for his willingness to fight and die for God.
Peter panicked when confronted by people who very well might have cost Peter his life, and denied Christ.
None of the other disciples were even there (except John, who went inside) ... they had already gone into hiding.

Yet all people talk about is how Peter ‘failed’. I doubt many of us would have fared half as well in his shoes.

 

[Andrew]

Deny and betray are not the same.

Of course it is.



Peter acted out ignorance and fear.

Judas lived with Jesus for three years and remained a thief, then betrayed Jesus and had him handed over to be put to death.

Judas was a thief before and after Jesus ministry

 

[YourTruthGod]

Judas was a thief before and after Jesus ministry

He killed himself before Jesus died.

 

[Andrew]

He killed himself before Jesus died.

Correct! His earthly ministry however was completed up to the time he was arrested, that is, he was no longer ministering to huge crowds, Judas pretty much ended it actually. Don't think too far into it, I'm just stating a simple fact.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Correct! His earthly ministry however was completed up to the time he was arrested, that is, he was no longer ministering to huge crowds, Judas pretty much ended it actually. Don't think to far into it, I'm just stating a simple fact.

I don't know why you thought to say what you did in the first place.

You said Judas was a thief even after Jesus' ministry.

Jesus knew Judas would do what he did, and it is why he chose him.

It wasn't finished until Jesus said so.

 

[Andrew]

I don't know why you thought to say what you did in the first place.

You said Judas was a thief even after Jesus' ministry.

Jesus knew Judas would do what he did, and it is why he chose him.

It wasn't finished until Jesus said so.

Im just saying that Judas never repented at all. Repent means to look inward, being 'In Christ' (Christian) literally means looking to Christ when you look 'inward'... Judas repented 'himself' and looked into his own unchanged and wicked heart which drove him to suicide.
The point being is that we look to Christ who offers us forgiveness, Judas didn't look toward Gods forgiveness, he looked towards his own salvation which is no salvation at all.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Im just saying that Judas never repented at all. Repent means to look inward, being 'In Christ' (Christian) literally means looking to Christ when you look 'inward'... Judas repented 'himself' and looked into his own unchanged and wicked heart which drove him to suicide.
The point being is that we look to Christ who offers us forgiveness, Judas didn't look toward Gods forgiveness, he looked towards his own salvation which is no salvation at all.

The Bible says Judas repented, and then did to himself what the old law required.

 

[Andrew]

The Bible says Judas repented, and then did to himself what the old law required.

where is the law that says you should commit suicide and not ask for Gods forgiveness?

 

[YourTruthGod]

where is the law that says you should commit suicide and not ask for Gods forgiveness?

The old law required death for the shedding of innocent blood.

And, I know you have been reading my posts from the beginning and know I said Judas would have to believe he could be forgiven.

Jesus said Judas was chosen because he was a devil and it would have been better if he was never born.

Do you really think that he could have lived and just been punished while alive

What kind of punishment would that be?

 

[Andrew]

The old law required death for the shedding of innocent blood.

And, I know you have been reading my posts from the beginning and know I said Judas would have to believe he could be forgiven.

Jesus said Judas was chosen because he was a devil and it would have been better if he was never born.

Do you really think that he could have lived and just been punished while alive

What kind of punishment would that be?

He also called Peter a devil

 

[YourTruthGod]

He also called Peter a devil

Actually, Jesus said get behind me, Satan.

Because Peter acted out of ignorance.

 

[Arsenios]

The old law required death for the shedding of innocent blood.

I don't think that suicide fulfills the "old law"...

True repentance is to never commit the same sin again...


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

I don't think that suicide fulfills the "old law"...

True repentance is to never commit the same sin again...


Arsenios

Well you just don't accept the scriptures.

 

[Andrew]

Well you just don't accept the scriptures.

They sacrificed animals in the OT not themselves

 

[YourTruthGod]

They sacrificed animals in the OT not themselves

They did what they were supposed to do.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I don't think that suicide fulfills the "old law"...

True repentance is to never commit the same sin again...


Arsenios

It would have been better that Judas was never born.

Do you think that was because he betrayed Jesus or because he killed himself?

 

[Arsenios]

It would have been better that Judas was never born.

Do you think that was because he betrayed Jesus or because he killed himself?

It was because he sinned grievously and did not repent of his sin...

His efforts to undo what he had done by returning the money and killing himself were not repentance...

He killed himself because he did not want to face what he had done in contrition of heart...

He falsely believed that repentance was not possible for himself because of what he had done...

Had he gone to the Apostles and threw himself at their feet in tears of sorrow and despair, I think he could have attained forgiveness...

But he did nothing of the kind...

He went to the people who had paid him for his sin...

They did not care...


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

It was because he sinned grievously and did not repent of his sin...

His efforts to undo what he had done by returning the money and killing himself were not repentance...

He killed himself because he did not want to face what he had done in contrition of heart...

He falsely believed that repentance was not possible for himself because of what he had done...

Had he gone to the Apostles and threw himself at their feet in tears of sorrow and despair, I think he could have attained forgiveness...

But he did nothing of the kind...

He went to the people who had paid him for his sin...

They did not care...


Arsenios

Wow, what a story.

The Bible says he repented and then did to himself what the law was supposed to do.

Jesus said it would be better if he had never been born before Judas even did what he did.

Matthew 26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."


So you see, your story is fiction.

Maybe Judas remembered what Jesus said after he did what he did.

 

[zecryphon_nomdiv]

Wow, what a story.

The Bible says he repented and then did to himself what the law was supposed to do.

Jesus said it would be better if he had never been born before Judas even did what he did.

Matthew 26:24 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born."


So you see, your story is fiction.

Maybe Judas remembered what Jesus said after he did what he did.

His story is not fiction. Judas did try and return the money he was paid to betray Jesus. Read Matthew 27:1-10 (NASB95)

Matthew 27

Judas’s Remorse

1Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death;
2and they bound Him, and led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate the governor.
3Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!”
5And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself.
6The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood.”
7And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers.
8For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one whose price had been set by the sons of Israel;
10and they gave them for the Potter’s Field, as the Lord directed me.”

 

[YourTruthGod]

His story is not fiction. Judas did try and return the money he was paid to betray Jesus. Read Matthew 27:1-10 (NASB95)

Matthew 27

Judas’s Remorse

1Now when morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people conferred together against Jesus to put Him to death;
2and they bound Him, and led Him away and delivered Him to Pilate the governor.
3Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!”
5And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself.
6The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the temple treasury, since it is the price of blood.”
7And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers.
8For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one whose price had been set by the sons of Israel;
10and they gave them for the Potter’s Field, as the Lord directed me.”

I think you are siding with the wrong poster.

I am the one who says Judas repented.

Arsenios said he did not.

I think you should read more posts in this thread.