PERFECT LOVE

[YourTruthGod]

Repentance is not suicide...

That is the problem with suicide...

It is the sin from which there is no possible repentance...


Arsenios

Is that your example of honesty?
Show where I or the Bible said suicide is repentance.

 

[MennoSota]

Your only point seems to be accusation, Menno...

So I am walking into your diversion for a step or two...

D you want the diversion of accusation of others?

Or do you want discussion of issues?

I mean, it starts looking like a theological ANTIFA protest around here!


Arsenios

Arsenios, your church has lowered God's word below church tradition, adding myths and stories to elevate them above God's word. This is truth, not accusation. History shows us this truth. I understand that you take offense. Perhaps take a closer look inward.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Well, show me a denomination in the Bible!

There is none.

Well, there is the Calvinist denomination, and the Lutheran denomination...

They are denominated - eg named after - a fallen human being...

Can you give some information to prove that?

You know, your denomination does claim to follow Paul.

Well, if that started within the first century or two, then Christ failed...

No that is not what it means. What you said just means you would be willing to say any crazy false thing to protect your church of choice.

And if it started later, then ALL the Churches taught the same thing wrong...

And the Body of Christ fell from Christ...

Jesus' body IS the church.

Christ Himself preached in the Temple at Jerusalem...

God is not the God of the dead...

All die in the flesh, but pass in the spirit.

What to you think about Saul trying to contact Samuel?

So you see, your reasoning is wrong.

The Apostle Luke was the first iconographer, unless the Icon Christ made by placing the napkin on His face and burning His Image on it to send to the man being healed of leprosy might make Christ the first iconographer...

No such napkin being circulated today, and if it is bowed to and worshiped, then it is a sin.

Do NOT worship the wood and the paint, no matter what...!!

We kiss pictures of our kids and spouses too...

Why would you do that?

Do you really think that you have a real picture of Jesus?

Prostrating before Christ is a good thing...

Your denomination does it to images

That is worshipping in Spirit with the humbling of the body...

God says not to do it, so don't do it.

Do you want us to tell them to kill a big fat pig and barbecue it and pig out on meat and grease first instead?

Do neither, because neither are from God.

Denominations are a product of the Reformation which is a product of the printing press and Latin apostasy...

The Catholic church, including the Eastern Orthodox went apostate from God, if they weren't always that way.

It is worldwide and has congruent Faith praxis in all places and all times...

Mine IS a house - A work in progress, I say!

Must be getting back to our roots then...

If the Body of Christ stopped being the Body of Christ then Christ failed...

But He did not fail, and we are STILL the Body of Christ...

And changing the Faith is not in our vocabulary...

They are all different, and every person has apparent responsibility for their own theologies...

As we see in the endless arguments on these websites...

You have been shown the error your denomination does, but you reject it.

I would rather you show me from your manner of life...

You are showing me from your life that you do things that God says not to do.

Everyone here is proving contrary opinions from the same scriptures...

You and I, for instance, cannot even agree on the issue of "FORGETTING" vs "SETTING ASIDE" in Paul...

You have to go find a Greek dictionary to try to make words seem different. You reject the plain fact that Paul does NOT want us to keep remembering our past sins.

I mean, is not the Biblical "proving of the Faith by Logic" kind of oxymoronic anyway??

Arsenios

Why would you say that?

 

[atpollard]

My Church is pre-denominational...

Calvinism is a denomination...

Lutheranism is a denomination...

Pentecostal is a denomination...

Before denominationalism, it is simply Christ's Body in Antioch, or Rome, or Thessalonica, or Corinth...

Mine is simply the Christ's Church at Antioch...

It was planted and established by the Apostle Paul...

As was recorded in the Book of Acts...

One of the five Great Sees of Christ's Holy Body around the Mediterranean...

To say that the Apostolic Churches are all denominations is false...

And to say that they are false is to say that Christ failed...

The human efforts to correct Rome in the West resulted in human denominations...

We are not a part of this very western development...


Arsenios

But you don’t live in Antioch, so to call yourself the Church of Antioch makes you a denomination.

As an aside, most of the churches that Paul wrote to no longer exist ... they were wiped out by the Caliphate and the surviving buildings are now Mosques.

 

[atpollard]

Technically, there is no Calvinist Denomination, I checked. There are MANY different “Reformed” and “Presbyterian” denominations ... typically divided by national geography and cultural origin. There is a Calvin Synod (United Church of Christ), but the denomination is “United Church of Christ” with “Calvin Synod” being just an association of churches within the Denomination.

Calvinism is a Sotierology, a theory on how God saves. So any denomination that holds to Reformed Sotierology could be described as Calvinist. However, there is no Calvinist denomination.

While the so-called Apostolic churches like to point to Protestant Denominationialism and criticize our leaving the “true church” ... the human corrupted “true church” was exchanging excommunications with itself centuries before anyone ever uttered the word Reformed, and had been fighting and disagreeing for a millennium before that. So we had a good teacher and reacted when we were able to read the scripture for ourselves and see the untruths that the clergy were preaching.

Why should it surprise you that Protestants do not agree on theology, the Catholics never have.

 

[Andrew]

Technically, there is no Calvinist Denomination, I checked. There are MANY different “Reformed” and “Presbyterian” denominations ... typically divided by national geography and cultural origin. There is a Calvin Synod (United Church of Christ), but the denomination is “United Church of Christ” with “Calvin Synod” being just an association of churches within the Denomination.

Calvinism is a Sotierology, a theory on how God saves. So any denomination that holds to Reformed Sotierology could be described as Calvinist. However, there is no Calvinist denomination.

My understanding of Calvinism is pretty much how you explained it, it's a different lens of understanding Salvation so to speak. For example you could be at a bible study group and someone might say 'I don't see it that way I'm a Calvinist' but it's not a denomination on it's own.

 

[Arsenios]

Is that your example of honesty?
Show where I or the Bible said suicide is repentance.

Judas committed suicide...
You said he repented...

Unless I missed something...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Arsenios, your church has lowered God's word below church tradition, adding myths and stories to elevate them above God's word. This is truth, not accusation. History shows us this truth. I understand that you take offense. Perhaps take a closer look inward.

Back at ya!

A.

 

[Arsenios]

Seems that Arsenios is reading into Scripture what is not there rather than extracting from them what is there!

Rather than exegesis he practices eisegesis

Sometimes we do it Italiano-Estylio...

Good Ol' Eet's a Geesus


A

 

[YourTruthGod]

Judas committed suicide...
You said he repented...

Unless I missed something...


Arsenios

So I guess you can't be honest.

 

[Arsenios]

Technically, there is no Calvinist Denomination, I checked. There are MANY different “Reformed” and “Presbyterian” denominations ... typically divided by national geography and cultural origin. There is a Calvin Synod (United Church of Christ), but the denomination is “United Church of Christ” with “Calvin Synod” being just an association of churches within the Denomination.

Calvinism is a Sotierology, a theory on how God saves. So any denomination that holds to Reformed Sotierology could be described as Calvinist. However, there is no Calvinist denomination.

Well, there is no such thing in Orthodoxy as a Paulist, or a Petrist, or a Johanist...

Calvin invented a theory of Salvation, and those who follow him are Calvinists...

That kind of thing is unknown in the Eastern Church...

[/quote]While the so-called Apostolic churches like to point to Protestant Denominationialism and criticize our leaving the “true church” ... the human corrupted “true church” was exchanging excommunications with itself centuries before anyone ever uttered the word Reformed, and had been fighting and disagreeing for a millennium before that. So we had a good teacher and reacted when we were able to read the scripture for ourselves and see the untruths that the clergy were preaching.

Why should it surprise you that Protestants do not agree on theology, the Catholics never have.[/QUOTE]

The Orthodox all agree on Theology... Where Schisms occur, it is over what would be seen as very minor details in western theological variances...

The EOC has no theological variances within its Communion...

Nor does the OOC...

Granted, the Western Church, Mother of the illegitimately conceived Reformation, has wandered quite a ways from Her Apostolic Roots...

There has never been a Reformation in the EOC...

That particular distinctive of self-division into gobs of denominations is strictly a western phenom of the Latin Apostacy...

The Eastern Orthodox Church did not self-birth from a parent Church as the Reformation managed to do...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

So I guess you can't be honest.

Can you be kind?


Arsenios

 

[Andrew]

So I guess you can't be honest.

I believe Judas just like Peter did Jesus wrong that night and knew it, Peter thought he would never deny Christ even once that night but he did three times before the rooster crowed!
Judas felt the conviction and he repented himself by returning the money, he must have felt his betrayal was too much however, reminds me of how Cain must have felt about his sin against God, Judas probably thought that his own works of returning and undoing his sin was worthy but his actions did nothing for him, he was a thief and robber and thought he could work his way into forgiveness "he bought his own lot"... but didn't trust that the Lord would forgive him... there is a good lesson in his story.

 

[Arsenios]

So I guess you can't be honest.

You said Judas repented...

I said he committed suicide...

We agree suicide is not repentance...

So for this I am not being honest?

Sounds like little games to me...


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

Can you be kind?


Arsenios

You are the one not being kind and honest.

 

[Arsenios]

So I guess you can't be honest.

You said Judas repented...

I said he committed suicide...

We agree suicide is not repentance...

So for this I am not being honest?

Sounds like little games to me...


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

I believe Judas just like Peter did Jesus wrong that night and knew it, Peter thought he would never deny Christ even once that night but he did three times before the rooster crowed!
Judas felt the conviction and he repented himself by returning his money, he must have felt his betrayal was too much, reminds me of how Cain felt about his sin against God, Judas probably thought that his own works of returning and undoing his sin was worthy but his actions did nothing for him, he was a thief and robber and thought he could work his way into forgiveness "he bought his own lot"... but didn't trust that the Lord would forgive him... there is a good lesson in his story.

We don't see it exactly the same, but close.
Arsenio is denying what the Bible plainly says.

 

[MennoSota]

Back at ya!

A.

Pretty hard to do when tradition is not raised above scripture in my world. I don't fellowship where the myths of men are raised in higher esteem than the word of God.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You said Judas repented...

I said he committed suicide...

We agree suicide is not repentance...

So for this I am not being honest?

Sounds like little games to me...


Arsenios

Yeah and I am not playing your game.

 

[MennoSota]

Arsenios wrote:
Calvin invented a theory of Salvation,

LOL