PERFECT LOVE

[YourTruthGod]

Is the Apostolic Church the Body of Christ?

Paul said it is...

And he suffered for Her...

And rejoiced in those sufferings...


Arsenios

I am speaking about your denomination adds beliefs from men that are not from God.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Judas did not repent...

Just believe what is plainly written and do not try to make it say what you want it to.

Judas repented of his sin.

He did not confess his sin...

Judas knew he did wrong and tried to make it right by returning the money.

He did not turn to God...
He did not return to Jesus...

Repenting of sins is to God and Jesus.

There comes a point, as it did with Pharaoh, when God just lets you go your own way...

Had he repented and turned to God and returned to Jesus asking for forgiveness...

Instead of entering into dismay and killing himself...

Judas could have been saved...

So also, btw, could have Judea...

Even at that late hour...

Well that is not true. The Bible says it can be too late.

Mat 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
thou that killest the prophets,
and stonest them which are sent unto thee,
how often would I have gathered thy children together,
even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings,
and ye would not!

See what happens when you just couldn't accept the first scripture that Judas repented, you don't realize that there will be more proof to your error.

Luke 19:42 and said, "If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace--but now it is hidden from your eyes.


Did you read that? "...but now it is hidden from your eyes."


Jeremiah 11:14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them: for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.

Jeremiah 7:16 As for you, do not pray for these people. Do not offer a plea or petition on their behalf, and do not beg Me, for I will not listen to you.

Jeremiah 11:11 Therefore this is what the LORD says: I am about to bring upon them a disaster that they cannot escape. They will cry out to Me, but I will not listen to them.

Jeremiah 14:11 Then the LORD said to me, "Do not pray for the well-being of this people.

Hosea 5:6 They go with their flocks and herds to seek the LORD, but they do not find Him; He has withdrawn Himself from them.

Zechariah 7:13 Therefore just as I had called and they would not listen, so when they called I would not listen, says the LORD of Hosts.

She was NOT WILLING, you see...
Nor was Judas...
Human will is our enemy...
Divine will is our Friend...
Satan wills our death...

Well I already proved with scripture that it can be too late.

We have to be willing to destroy ur own will for the sake of God's will...

Taking down demonic powers and principalities in the fallen world...


Arsenios

We need to teach everyone God's Truth and not man's truth.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Judas did not repent...
He did not confess his sin...
He did not turn to God...
He did not return to Jesus...

Arsenios

The scripture plainly says that Judas repented.

Look what happened when Esau repented:

Hebrews 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

 

[Arsenios]

You are adding beliefs from men that God does not say to do, and in many cases, your denomination does what God says not to do.

We are discipled by the Apostolic Church to obey God...

In accord with God's Commandment to the Apostles:

"Go... Disciple all the Nations..."


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The scripture plainly says that Judas repented.

Look what happened when Esau repented:

Hebrews 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

Returning the money and committing suicide is not repentance...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I am speaking about your denomination adds beliefs from men that are not from God.

My Church is pre-denominational...

Calvinism is a denomination...

Lutheranism is a denomination...

Pentecostal is a denomination...

Before denominationalism, it is simply Christ's Body in Antioch, or Rome, or Thessalonica, or Corinth...

Mine is simply the Christ's Church at Antioch...

It was planted and established by the Apostle Paul...

As was recorded in the Book of Acts...

One of the five Great Sees of Christ's Holy Body around the Mediterranean...

To say that the Apostolic Churches are all denominations is false...

And to say that they are false is to say that Christ failed...

The human efforts to correct Rome in the West resulted in human denominations...

We are not a part of this very western development...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The Bible says it can be too late.

Did you read that? "...but now it is hidden from your eyes."

Jeremiah 11:14 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up a cry or prayer for them:
for I will not hear them in the time that they cry unto me for their trouble.

Well I already proved with scripture that it can be too late.

I agree - And perhaps it was too late for Judas... In fact, it turned out too late...

Yet it was not true repentance, which is turning from sin toward God...

And this he did not do...

He fled from God by suicide...

But his "repentance" came, as your Scripture relates in Jeremiah, from the troubles, I should think...

He fell from Apostolic Grace by his failure to repent of his love of silver...

That is a perceptible and catastrophic fall...

He did not return to the Apostles confessing and begging forgiveness...

We need to teach everyone God's Truth and not man's truth.

Indeed!

 

[Arsenios]

This is your red herring. You cannot stick with God and His Word. You lean on the crutch of your church, apart from scripture.

Looks like it is all about YOUR-YOU!!


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Looks like it is all about YOUR-YOU!!


Arsenios

Another diversion away from your problem.

 

[YourTruthGod]

We are discipled by the Apostolic Church to obey God...

In accord with God's Commandment to the Apostles:

"Go... Disciple all the Nations..."


Arsenios

Not with made up things that go against what God says.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Returning the money and committing suicide is not repentance...


Arsenios

Feeling bad about your sin and returning the money is repentance.

 

[YourTruthGod]

My Church is pre-denominational...

I understand you like to say that.

Calvinism is a denomination...

Lutheranism is a denomination...

Pentecostal is a denomination...

I never heard of Calvinism and Lutheranism being denominations, but their churches are.

Before denominationalism, it is simply Christ's Body in Antioch, or Rome, or Thessalonica, or Corinth...

Until your church started teaching things that are not from God.

Mine is simply the Christ's Church at Antioch...

Christ's church does not teach to build big expensive buildings, and doesn't preach to pray to dead Saints. It doesn't say to venerate (worship) icons (idols). We are forbidden to metanoia (bow) to the wooden pictures (things made by their own hands). They also kiss these objects, and prostrate to them.
We are not to fast before being water baptized...that is more made up teachings not from God. Can you imagine the apostles telling the people who want to be baptized to go and fast for a while then come back?

It was planted and established by the Apostle Paul...

As was recorded in the Book of Acts...

One of the five Great Sees of Christ's Holy Body around the Mediterranean...

To say that the Apostolic Churches are all denominations is false...

Well you sure are saying it about the beliefs of others.

The Orthodox church is definitely not the church of Jesus and the apostles.
Does your church look like a house?
The church in Antioch was a house.

And to say that they are false is to say that Christ failed...

No way it is to say that.

The human efforts to correct Rome in the West resulted in human denominations...

Your denomination needs correcting, and then it would be like all the churches of Christ.

We are not a part of this very western development...

Arsenios

I can show you from the scriptures easily.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I agree - And perhaps it was too late for Judas... In fact, it turned out too late...

Yet it was not true repentance, which is turning from sin toward God...

And this he did not do...

He fled from God by suicide...

But his "repentance" came, as your Scripture relates in Jeremiah, from the troubles, I should think...

He fell from Apostolic Grace by his failure to repent of his love of silver...

That is a perceptible and catastrophic fall...

He did not return to the Apostles confessing and begging forgiveness...



Indeed!

I just read and believe and trust what the scriptures say. It says that Judas repented.

 

[Arsenios]

Another diversion away from your problem.

All about your...

Finger pointers are all about accusing you and your...

Devil means Accuser...

Do you love to accuse, Menno?

Are you accusing me, Menno?


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Not with made up things that go against what God says.

Nope, not with those!


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I just read and believe and trust what the scriptures say. It says that Judas repented.

Repentance is not suicide...

That is the problem with suicide...

It is the sin from which there is no possible repentance...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

All about your...

Finger pointers are all about accusing you and your...

Devil means Accuser...

Do you love to accuse, Menno?

Are you accusing me, Menno?


Arsenios

Diversion. Focus back on point, Arsenios.

 

[Arsenios]

I understand you like to say that.

Well, show me a denomination in the Bible!

I never heard of Calvinism and Lutheranism being denominations, but their churches are.

Well, there is the Calvinist denomination, and the Lutheran denomination...

They are denominated - eg named after - a fallen human being...

Until your church started teaching things that are not from God.

Well, if that started within the first century or two, then Christ failed...

And if it started later, then ALL the Churches taught the same thing wrong...

And the Body of Christ fell from Christ...

Christ's church does not teach to build big expensive buildings,

Christ Himself preached in the Temple at Jerusalem...

and doesn't preach to pray to dead Saints.

God is not the God of the dead...

It doesn't say to venerate (worship) icons (idols).

The Apostle Luke was the first iconographer, unless the Icon Christ made by placing the napkin on His face and burning His Image on it to send to the man being healed of leprosy might make Christ the first iconographer...

We are forbidden to metanoia (bow) to the wooden pictures (things made by their own hands).

Do NOT worship the wood and the paint, no matter what...!!

They also kiss these objects,

We kiss pictures of our kids and spouses too...

and prostrate to them.

Prostrating before Christ is a good thing...

That is worshipping in Spirit with the humbling of the body...

We are not to fast before being water baptized...
that is more made up teachings not from God.
Can you imagine the apostles telling the people who want to be baptized
to go and fast for a while then come back?

Do you want us to tell them to kill a big fat pig and barbecue it and pig out on meat and grease first instead?

Well you sure are saying it about the beliefs of others.

Denominations are a product of the Reformation which is a product of the printing press and Latin apostasy...

The Orthodox church is definitely not the church of Jesus and the apostles.

It is worldwide and has congruent Faith praxis in all places and all times...

Does your church look like a house?

Mine IS a house - A work in progress, I say!

The church in Antioch was a house.

Must be getting back to our roots then...

No way it is to say that.

If the Body of Christ stopped being the Body of Christ then Christ failed...

But He did not fail, and we are STILL the Body of Christ...

And changing the Faith is not in our vocabulary...

Your denomination needs correcting, and then it would be like all the churches of Christ.

They are all different, and every person has apparent responsibility for their own theologies...

As we see in the endless arguments on these websites...

I can show you from the scriptures easily.

I would rather you show me from your manner of life...

Everyone here is proving contrary opinions from the same scriptures...

You and I, for instance, cannot even agree on the issue of "FORGETTING" vs "SETTING ASIDE" in Paul...

I mean, is not the Biblical "proving of the Faith by Logic" kind of oxymoronic anyway??


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Diversion. Focus back on point, Arsenios.

Your only point seems to be accusation, Menno...

So I am walking into your diversion for a step or two...

D you want the diversion of accusation of others?

Or do you want discussion of issues?

I mean, it starts looking like a theological ANTIFA protest around here!


Arsenios

 

[RichWh1]

Seems that Arsenios is reading into Scripture what is not there rather than extracting from them what is there!

Rather than exegesis he practices eisegesis



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk