PERFECT LOVE

[psalms 91]

Do you not know that when we are saved we are at that time made holy and perfect?

At that exact moment yes we are but since we all sin we do not remain in that state for probably even a minute or so

 

[Arsenios]

1Ti 1:15
This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world
to save sinners of whom I am chief.

Paul himself, a Holy Apostle, describes himself as the worst of sinners...

Just because Paul brought up how even the worst of sinners can get saved,
it is in no way saying he doesn't forget what is behind him and straining what is ahead.

He was NOT saying he still is doing the things that qualify him as the worst of sinners.

He just wants the worst of sinners to know that they CAN be saved too.

If this were true, he would have spoken in the past tense and said:

NOT - "Sinners of whom I AM Chief..."

But instead: "Sinners of whom I WAS Chief..."

1 Timothy 1:16
But for this very reason I was shown mercy,
so that in me, the worst of sinners,
Christ Jesus might display His perfect patience
as an example to those
who would believe in Him
for eternal life.

Notice that here he does go into the past tense in God's Mercy...
But not in his own sinfulness...

Just go by the English. The Bible has already been translated for us.

When there is a question of meaning, the Greek is its Biblical basis...

The Church in Antioch which Paul established has been teaching and confessing each member as the Chief of Sinners...

For 2000 years...

Which is why he introduced it this way:

This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,

All accept and confess:
That Christ came into the world to save
sinners, of whom I am Chief..."


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

At that exact moment yes we are but since we all sin we do not remain in that state for probably even a minute or so

I love your optimism!



A.

 

[YourTruthGod]

At that exact moment yes we are but since we all sin we do not remain in that state for probably even a minute or so

No way for a minute or two.

 

[YourTruthGod]

1Ti 1:15
This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world
to save sinners of whom I am chief.

Paul himself, a Holy Apostle, describes himself as the worst of sinners...

If this were true, he would have spoken in the past tense and said:

NOT - "Sinners of whom I AM Chief..."

But instead: "Sinners of whom I WAS Chief..."

It is easy to show you with scripture that you are wrong, but it is harder for you to give up something false that you held so dear to you for so long.

Paul did not keep doing the things that made him the worst of sinners.

Do you think Paul kept dragging men and women off to prison and approving of their death?

He brought up what he did do because he was explaining that God choose him so that the worst of sinners can know they could be saved too.

I already gave you scripture will Paul says to forget what is behind.

When there is a question of meaning, the Greek is its Biblical basis...

Even trying to find a different meaning in Greek isn't going to help you.

The Church in Antioch which Paul established has been teaching and confessing each member as the Chief of Sinners...

No, not all are the chief of sinners, unless you all in the church in Antioch were violent, and approved of the death of Christians, and tried to destroy Jesus' church by having men and women dragged off to prison and approved of their deaths.

See Acts 22:20, Acts 26:10, Acts 8:3.

For 2000 years...

Which is why he introduced it this way:

This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,

All accept and confess:
That Christ came into the world to save
sinners, of whom I am Chief..."

Arsenios

All are to accept what Paul said about himself, and not that all should accept that all are the worst of sinners.

We have to love God's Truth and not things made up by men.

 

[Arsenios]

Do you not know that when we are saved we are at that time made holy and perfect?

In the early Church, the person to be baptized into Christ would be fasting for 40 days, [Lent], then enter Holy Week, and be Baptized...

THEN they would abide in the enclosure of the Church for 10 days in continuing prayer and fasting, that they not be tempted...

That their new birth into Christ be made secure...

For indeed we emerge from the Waters of Regeneration holy and pure...

And then we have our first thought that is not so holy and pure...

And we begin to "run the race set before us..."


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

It is easy to show you with scripture that you are wrong,
but it is harder for you to give up something false that you held so dear to you for so long.

For 2000 years now and counting - The whole of the Church Christ established:

"I believe O Lord and I confess...
That Thou are the Christ...
The Son of God...
Who camest into the world...
To save sinners...
Of whom I am Chief..."

Thus begins our confession of the Faith of Christ...
In every Service of Holy Communion...

Paul did not keep doing the things that made him the worst of sinners.

Indeed not - He STOPPED doing them - He repented of them...

And even having never done them again, he said:

This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world
to save sinners of whom I am chief.

Do you think Paul kept dragging men and women off to prison and approving of their death?

Absolutely not...

He brought up what he did do because he was explaining that God choose him so that the worst of sinners can know they could be saved too.

Indeed he did... And more besides...

I already gave you scripture will Paul says to forget what is behind.

And I already gave you the meaning of "forget" as "set aside"...

Even trying to find a different meaning in Greek isn't going to help you.

You are hard to persuade, that's true!

No, not all are the chief of sinners,

Even our Patriarch confesses that he is chief of sinners...

unless you all in the church in Antioch were violent,
and approved of the death of Christians,
and tried to destroy Jesus' church
by having men and women dragged off to prison
and approved of their deaths.

I have done worse...

All are to accept what Paul said about himself,
and not that all should accept that all are the worst of sinners.

Paul said that ALL should accept the faithful saying...
That Christ died for sinners...
Of whom I am chief...

We have to love God's Truth and not things made up by men.

How can anyone avoid loving God's Truth?


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

For 2000 years now and counting - The whole of the Church Christ established:

"I believe O Lord and I confess...
That Thou are the Christ...
The Son of God...
Who camest into the world...
To save sinners...
Of whom I am Chief..."

Thus begins our confession of the Faith of Christ...
In every Service of Holy Communion...



Indeed not - He STOPPED doing them - He repented of them...

And even having never done them again, he said:

This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world
to save sinners of whom I am chief.



Absolutely not...



Indeed he did... And more besides...



And I already gave you the meaning of "forget" as "set aside"...



You are hard to persuade, that's true!



Even our Patriarch confesses that he is chief of sinners...



I have done worse...



Paul said that ALL should accept the faithful saying...
That Christ died for sinners...
Of whom I am chief...



How can anyone avoid loving God's Truth?


Arsenios

This is your red herring. You cannot stick with God and His Word. You lean on the crutch of your church, apart from scripture.

 

[YourTruthGod]

In the early Church, the person to be baptized into Christ would be fasting for 40 days, [Lent], then enter Holy Week, and be Baptized...

THEN they would abide in the enclosure of the Church for 10 days in continuing prayer and fasting, that they not be tempted...

That their new birth into Christ be made secure...

Wow, we have to obey God and not men.

 

[YourTruthGod]

For 2000 years now and counting - The whole of the Church Christ established:

"I believe O Lord and I confess...
That Thou are the Christ...
The Son of God...
Who camest into the world...
To save sinners...
Of whom I am Chief..."

Thus begins our confession of the Faith of Christ...
In every Service of Holy Communion...



Indeed not - He STOPPED doing them - He repented of them...

And even having never done them again, he said:

This is a faithful saying,
and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world
to save sinners of whom I am chief.



Absolutely not...



Indeed he did... And more besides...



And I already gave you the meaning of "forget" as "set aside"...



You are hard to persuade, that's true!



Even our Patriarch confesses that he is chief of sinners...



I have done worse...



Paul said that ALL should accept the faithful saying...
That Christ died for sinners...
Of whom I am chief...



How can anyone avoid loving God's Truth?


Arsenios

You are not saying things from God. You are saying things made up from men.

 

[atpollard]

Anyone can become an elect of God's.

Even Judas, the Son of Perdition?
And Esau, “whom God hated”?

 

[Andrew]

Even Judas, the Son of Perdition?
And Esau, “whom God hated”?

What about Pharaoh?

 

[Arsenios]

Wow, we have to obey God and not men.

We are discipled by the Apostolic Church to obey God...

In accord with God's Commandment to the Apostles:

"Go... Disciple all the Nations..."


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

You are not saying things from God. You are saying things made up from men.

I quoted the Holy man of God Paul...


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

I quoted the Holy man of God Paul...


Arsenios

Paul says forget what is behind, and you definitely went against him and said not to forget.

Paul says the people can accept it that he was the worst of sinners. You say Paul says all are the worst of sinners.

 

[YourTruthGod]

We are discipled by the Apostolic Church to obey God...

In accord with God's Commandment to the Apostles:

"Go... Disciple all the Nations..."


Arsenios

You are adding beliefs from men that God does not say to do, and in many cases, your denomination does what God says not to do.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Even Judas, the Son of Perdition?
And Esau, “whom God hated”?

Judas could have, but then it was too late. Esau could have, but he was godless and it was too late.

 

[Arsenios]

Paul says forget what is behind, and you definitely went against him and said not to forget.

Paul says the people can accept it that he was the worst of sinners. You say Paul says all are the worst of sinners.

Paul said "Set aside what is behind"
and
he did not say that he WAS,
but that I AM
chief of sinners...

And of the latter, that "Of sinners I AM Chief" is a faithful and true statement worthy of all veneration...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Judas could have, but then it was too late. Esau could have, but he was godless and it was too late.

Judas did not repent...
He did not confess his sin...
He did not turn to God...
He did not return to Jesus...

There comes a point, as it did with Pharaoh, when God just lets you go your own way...

Had he repented and turned to God and returned to Jesus asking for forgiveness...

Instead of entering into dismay and killing himself...

Judas could have been saved...

So also, btw, could have Judea...

Even at that late hour...

Mat 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
thou that killest the prophets,
and stonest them which are sent unto thee,
how often would I have gathered thy children together,
even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings,
and ye would not!

She was NOT WILLING, you see...
Nor was Judas...
Human will is our enemy...
Divine will is our Friend...
Satan wills our death...

We have to be willing to destroy ur own will for the sake of God's will...

Taking down demonic powers and principalities in the fallen world...


Arsenios


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

You are adding beliefs from men that God does not say to do, and in many cases, your denomination does what God says not to do.

Is the Apostolic Church the Body of Christ?

Paul said it is...

And he suffered for Her...

And rejoiced in those sufferings...


Arsenios