PERFECT LOVE

[Arsenios]

With all respect, I don't think so.

That is how deception works...

I knew for an undisputed fact that the God I know is absolutely NOT the Christian God...

And I know God...

He had to tell me He IS the God of Christians...

I was scandalized...

And I was wrong...

He showed it to me much later, when I encountered the Orthodox Faith...

But I took His word to heart right away, scandalous to me though it was!

God has given me a gift of discernment

A Gift needs to be exercised carefully and tested vigilantly...

and our dialogue has been long enough for us to know each other's views.

That is true, but a Divine Gift is not discernment of another's views...

It is discernment of the person holding and stating views...

I urge you to not fight against the bit of God's grace alone.

May your kind words continue to find welcome in my soul...


Arsenios

 

[Pedrito]

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In Posts #1 and #6, Arsenios quotes St. Maximos the Confessor (apparently as someone authoritative): ‘you must love everyone equally’. In Post #6, he also quotes another author who stated: ‘"perfect love" has as its goal that you must love everyone equally...perfect love inspires you, it encourages and exhorts you, it guides you to the place where you can love everyone equally’.

I suggest we need to exercise caution when making statements like that, and when quoting others in that vein. We could accidentally point the finger at someone special:

John 13:23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
John 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved...
John 21:7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord....
John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved...

On the basis of that, I suggest that Arsenios’ premise has a visible flaw.

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[Arsenios]

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In Posts #1 and #6, Arsenios quotes St. Maximos the Confessor (apparently as someone authoritative): ‘you must love everyone equally’. In Post #6, he also quotes another author who stated: ‘"perfect love" has as its goal that you must love everyone equally...perfect love inspires you, it encourages and exhorts you, it guides you to the place where you can love everyone equally’.

I suggest we need to exercise caution when making statements like that, and when quoting others in that vein. We could accidentally point the finger at someone special:

John 13:23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
John 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved...
John 21:7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord....
John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved...

On the basis of that, I suggest that Arsenios’ premise has a visible flaw.

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Sometimes it is hard to discern the two natures of Christ in Scripture...


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

Love is a feeling. When Jesus lives inside the one he saves, it is love in your heart and the feeling is so strong.

 

[YourTruthGod]

This Church was founded by Paul, Menno -

When he wintered over in Antioch that year, remember?

In Antioch where the followers of Christ...
The People of the Way...
Were first called Christians, remember?

We have not changed his teaching in 2000 years now, and counting...

If all the Apostolic Churches have it wrong, then did Christ fail??

Or do you thank God that He managed to get a Bible to the Gutenburg presses
so Luther could finally get right what Christ and Paul and the rest of Christianity
had failed to convey?

Or do you thank God for Luther...
Who finally after 1500 years...
Managed to interpret the Bible...
And correct what Christ failed to impart?


Arsenios

There was the church before Paul.

Acts 8:3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

Jesus spoke about the church when he walked the earth.

Matthew 18:17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Paul never created the crazy crap you teach, Arsenios. Your faction went off the rails and abandoned grace for works...the very thing Paul condemned in the Galatian church.

The works that Paul spoke against was the works of the law. The purification works are the works of the law.

These are the works of the law that Paul spoke of that is no more:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.


Paul did not mean 'not of obedience'.

 

[Arsenios]

The works that Paul spoke against was the works of the law. The purification works are the works of the law.

These are the works of the law that Paul spoke of that is no more:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.


Paul did not mean 'not of obedience'.

What a refreshing splash of lovely water!

Thank you and welcome to this forum!


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

There was the church before Paul.

Acts 8:3 But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.

Jesus spoke about the church when he walked the earth.

Matthew 18:17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Indeed, the Body of Christ was first established in Jerusalem, you are right...

Paul established that Body in Antioch, where the followers of Christ were first called Christians...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Love is a feeling. When Jesus lives inside the one he saves, it is love in your heart and the feeling is so strong.

That is true, and yet it is also an obedience when we do not feel love...

It is doing good to someone in need...


Arsenios

 

[YourTruthGod]

What a refreshing splash of lovely water!

Thank you and welcome to this forum!


Arsenios

Now this post to me is a refreshment! Love to you and thanks .

 

[YourTruthGod]

That is true, and yet it is also an obedience when we do not feel love...

It is doing good to someone in need...


Arsenios

...and without that feeling of love inside, we might as well be a resounding gong.

 

[MennoSota]

...and without that feeling of love inside, we might as well be a resounding gong.

.

 

[YourTruthGod]

MennoSota,

Feelings come from the heart, and fear, hate, and all kinds of negative things can be in your heart.

God is love, and when His Spirit moves in your heart to live with you, you will feel that love.

 

[MennoSota]

MennoSota,

Feelings come from the heart, and fear, hate, and all kinds of negative things can be in your heart.

God is love, and when His Spirit moves in your heart to live with you, you will feel that love.

Facts are the fuel for faith. Feelings just come along for the ride. Feelings are fickle and often the route by which Satan attacks.
We see Satan playing on the heart strings of feelings in the garden.
Genesis 3:1,4,6
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

Feelings can come straight from hell. How many men and women have fallen into sexual sin because their feelings led them to disobedience?
Take your lies about feelings and burn them in the hell from which they come.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Well, this is your thread and I said what I had to say.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Oh wait a minute. lol This isn't MennoSota's thread, so I guess I can go on about how love is a feeling.

 

[Pedrito]

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Post #99:

You didn’t actually respond to the questions that I asked ...

In English, Greek or Hebrew ... does this paragraph speak of assurance of being safely led and guarded to the end, or a warning about choosing to fall away? Are Jesus’ promises conditional in these verses, or are they statements of fact?

Care to try to again to answer what was asked?

As pointed out very clearly in Post #84, all Scripture that is pertinent to a topic or situation must be considered for a sound conclusion to be reached.

Therefore, looking only at the verses atpollard concentrates on (e.g. John 6:44), to the exclusion of other relevant statements of Scripture, it can be concluded that no-one can ever fall away by personal choice. Yet in John 10:27-29, Jesus specifically refers to protection from third party (external) interference, only.

Don’t forget that in Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13 and Mark 13:13, Jesus states that it is those who endure to the end that will be saved. That simply and definitely means that some will not endure, some will not last. Some will choose to walk away of their own volition.

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And what did the Apostle John say under divine inspiration? 1 John 5:16: If anyone sees his brother sin a sin not to death, he shall ask, and He shall give him life for those that do not sin to death. There is a sin to death, I do not say that he shall pray for it.

We therefore have the God-ordained obligation to:
- Be able to identify those who are true believers, as opposed to merely “church goers”;
- Understand what the sin unto death is (and by so doing, acknowledge that it exists for believers);
- Be able to recognise when one of those identified believers has committed the sin unto death (unpardonable sin);
- Deliberately not pray for any identified believer whom we determine to be in that situation (which John tells us does exist).

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Of course, people of a certain persuasion are inclined to invoke 1 John 5:18 in an attempt to invalidate John’s preceding words. They claim that those doomed people who were formerly considered by others to be truly saved (including by themselves), were never saved in the first place.

But that is exactly how the claimers are regarded and regard themselves now. The situation is exactly the same. And therefore, the claimers, each, individually, can have no real assurance of salvation. Because one day it could be said of them…

God is perfect love, but He is also perfect justice.

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[YourTruthGod]

Facts are the fuel for faith. Feelings just come along for the ride. Feelings are fickle and often the route by which Satan attacks.
We see Satan playing on the heart strings of feelings in the garden.
Genesis 3:1,4,6
Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?”
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.
So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.

Feelings can come straight from hell. How many men and women have fallen into sexual sin because their feelings led them to disobedience?
Take your lies about feelings and burn them in the hell from which they come.

The scriptures tell us about having joy and gladness in the heart from the Holy Spirit.

 

[MennoSota]

The scriptures tell us about having joy in the heart from the Holy Spirit.

The scriptures tell us...
Is this a fact you are quoting? Indeed, it is.
Facts must fuel what we feel.
Feelings, by themselves, are fickle and untrustworthy.
Scripture tells us to test the spirits and discern truth from lies. God's word drives what we should feel. Don't accept every feeling as coming from God. You'll be led into deception.

 

[YourTruthGod]

The scriptures tell us...
Is this a fact you are quoting? Indeed, it is.
Facts must fuel what we feel.
Feelings, by themselves, are fickle and untrustworthy.
Scripture tells us to test the spirits and discern truth from lies. God's word drives what we should feel. Don't accept every feeling as coming from God. You'll be led into deception.

You said bad things about love being a feeling. We are told the Lord has affection for us. We are told to be affectionate for each other in the Lord. Affection is a feeling.

Romans 12:10
Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;