PERFECT LOVE

Arsenios

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Do you disagree that you are covered in Christ's righteousness? You are holy because He covers you in His holiness.

Perfectly true...

We are justified at Baptism...

Which follows after we have established repentance as our manner of life...

We are not Baptized first, and then handed out God's Righteousness...

And "cover" means not concealed, but cloaked as in surrounded and saturated...

And is not an undeserved not guilty verdict at the last judgement...

One of our elders said that the vast majority of Christian folks who end up in torments after repose are surprised they are there, because they thought they would be in heaven...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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So here is the question:

We all know that we do not have perfect love...

So what?

That is the question...

You do not have perfect love...

You do not have God's Love...

You hate your enemies and love your friends...

You are a mess at the Feet of God, proclaiming what you do not have...

Soooo.......

Whatcha gonna DO about it?

What does your theology say for you to DO??


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Perfectly true...

We are justified at Baptism...

Which follows after we have established repentance as our manner of life...

We are not Baptized first, and then handed out God's Righteousness...

And "cover" means not concealed, but cloaked as in surrounded and saturated...

And is not an undeserved not guilty verdict at the last judgement...

One of our elders said that the vast majority of Christian folks who end up in torments after repose are surprised they are there, because they thought they would be in heaven...


Arsenios

Judaiser teaching...grace not needed. Do the works required to save oneself. Sad
 

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One of our elders said that the vast majority of Christian folks who end up in torments after repose are surprised they are there, because they thought they would be in heaven...

Your elder died and knows who didn't make it to heaven?
 

Arsenios

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Arsenios said:
What does your theology say for you to DO??

Judaiser teaching...
grace not needed.
Do the works required to save oneself.

Sad

What does your theology teach you to DO when your love of God is far from mature?

When you love your friends and family and allies...

But not your enemies and evil-doers and murderers and adulterers...



Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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Your elder died and knows who didn't make it to heaven?

When one becomes one with God...

And asks God a question...

You do the math...


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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What does your theology teach you to DO when your love of God is far from mature?

When you love your friends and family and allies...

But not your enemies and evil-doers and murderers and adulterers...


Arsenios
Arsenios, we accept all people as they are. We do not approve of all their ideas and teaching. This is both love and tolerance.
I do not approve of your legalism that eliminates salvation by God's grace through faith and substitutes it for the works of repentance as a means of meriting God's favor. You teach a gospel that is no gospel at all, but simply another form of legalistic works to attempt salvation on your own. That is anathema.
 

Arsenios

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Arsenios, we accept all people as they are. We do not approve of all their ideas and teaching. This is both love and tolerance.

Acceptance and tolerance means love?

You see, I asked you what one is to do when one is shown that they are FAR FAR from God's Love...

Your reply extolling your own love of acceptance and tolerance does not answer the question...

I do not approve of your legalism that eliminates salvation by God's grace through faith
and substitutes it for the works of repentance as a means of meriting God's favor.
You teach a gospel that is no gospel at all,
but simply another form of legalistic works to attempt salvation on your own.
That is anathema.

Your judgementalism of disapproval and rejection is God's Love???

What then would God's Judgement look like?

What does your THEOLOGY teach you to DO when you find your SELF FAR from the Love of God?


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Acceptance and tolerance means love?

You see, I asked you what one is to do when one is shown that they are FAR FAR from God's Love...

Your reply extolling your own love of acceptance and tolerance does not answer the question...



Your judgementalism of disapproval and rejection is God's Love???

What then would God's Judgement look like?

What does your THEOLOGY teach you to DO when you find your SELF FAR from the Love of God?


Arsenios

Unless God makes the person alive with Christ, they will not know.
1 John 4:9-10
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
 

Arsenios

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Unless God makes the person alive with Christ, they will not know.
1 John 4:9-10
In this the love of God was made manifest among us,
that God sent his only Son into the world,
so that we might live through him.
In this is love,
not that we have loved God
but that he loved us
and sent his Son
to be the propitiation
for our sins.

So when you find out that you do NOT have the Love of God...
That God's Love is NOT manifested in you...
THEN, Menno...
What does YOUR THEOLOGY tell you to DO about it?

Is this as hard question for you to answer??

I have asked it 3 or 4 times now...


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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So when you find out that you do NOT have the Love of God...
That God's Love is NOT manifested in you...
THEN, Menno...
What does YOUR THEOLOGY tell you to DO about it?

Is this as hard question for you to answer??

I have asked it 3 or 4 times now...


Arsenios

Since God has made me alive in Christ, I should repent. My lack of repentance does not remove my adoption and sonship with God, just as the prodigal son's lack of repentance did not remove his position as a son in the family.
The unregenerate cannot repent for they never were adopted by God.
What is hard is the troubling fact that you want dead people to repent when they are still dead. Your theology has no grace.
 

atpollard

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So here is the question:

We all know that we do not have perfect love...

So what?

That is the question...

You do not have perfect love...

You do not have God's Love...

You hate your enemies and love your friends...

You are a mess at the Feet of God, proclaiming what you do not have...

Soooo.......

Whatcha gonna DO about it?

What does your theology say for you to DO??


Arsenios

[Phl 3:2-6 NASB] 2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3 for we are the [true] circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, 4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

[Phl 3:7-11 NASB] 7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from [the] Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which [comes] from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

[Phl 3:12-16 NASB] 12 Not that I have already obtained [it] or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of [it] yet; but one thing [I do:] forgetting what [lies] behind and reaching forward to what [lies] ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you; 16 however, let us keep living by that same [ standard] to which we have attained.

[Phl 3:17-21 NASB] 17 Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. 18 For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] enemies of the cross of Christ, 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is [their] appetite, and [whose] glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
 

Arsenios

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Arsenios

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I should repent.

What is hard is the troubling fact that you want dead people to repent when they are still dead.

Death is the separation of the soul from the body...

Is this how you were born?

Or were you born under the rulership of death?

And because of that rulership, you have sinned, yes?

That is what Paul explains plainly...


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Death is the separation of the soul from the body...

Is this how you were born?

Or were you born under the rulership of death?

And because of that rulership, you have sinned, yes?

That is what Paul explains plainly...


Arsenios
Ephesians 2:1-3
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
 

MennoSota

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Ephesians 2:4-7
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
 

MennoSota

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1 John 4:9-10,19
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
We love because he first loved us.
 

Arsenios

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1 John 4:9-10,19
In this the love of God was made manifest among us,
that God sent his only Son into the world,
so that we might live through him.
In this is love,
not that we have loved God
but that he loved us
and sent his Son
to be the propitiation
for our sins.


We love because he first loved us.

Of course - And my question is this:

In your theology, when we find ourselves far short of the Love of God, what are we to do about it?

Because we all ARE way short of that Love...

Is there a path we can walk toward that Love?

Is there one we can walk away from that Love?

Is there a way that does neither?


Arsenios
 

MennoSota

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Of course - And my question is this:

In your theology, when we find ourselves far short of the Love of God, what are we to do about it?

Because we all ARE way short of that Love...

Is there a path we can walk toward that Love?

Is there one we can walk away from that Love?

Is there a way that does neither?


Arsenios

We are never short of the love of God when we are His children.
There may be times when we feel God is silent. In those times we rest in faith that despite the feelings of distance, Jesus tells us that He will never leave us nor forsake us.
God placed us in His love by His gracious choice. By His gracious choice He will not leave us nor forsake us.
Arsenios, your question infers that human actions determine God's love. If that were true, God would never love any human. God would just condemn us and throw us in hell. But God loved us and gave His Son for us as our propitiation. God chooses to love whom He wills, not because the person did something to deserve His love, but because He chooses to do so out of His abundant grace.
Why are you so blind to grace and so fixated on human works of self-righteousness? All your self-righteousness is as filthy rags.
 

Arsenios

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Arsenios, your question infers that human actions determine God's love.

I know you think this, and if it were true, I would be indoor camp fetching water...

God alone determines God's Love - God IS Love...

Human actions determine human attainment of that Love of God...

Why are you ... so fixated on human works of self-righteousness?

Because I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER about God's Love...

You and I are the ONLY ones to be doubted, my Brother, not God...

It is totally within my power in this life to walk away from God...

Heb 6:4-6
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,
and have tasted of the heavenly gift,
and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
And have tasted the Good Word of God,
and the Powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away,
to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves
the Son of God afresh,
and put Him to open shame.



All your self-righteousness is as filthy rags.

Living a repentant life is the opposite of self-righteousness...

Christian virtue is repentance - eg denial of self in pain unto death on the cross of suffering...

My self-righteousness is as dung, I agree...

Yet to return to the vomit of sin is to fall far away from God...

So we are discipled to live lives of repentance from sin...

Lest we should fall away, as Paul warns in Hebrews...

And this praxis of the Faith of Christ you call being

"fixated on human works of self-righteousness"

Denial of self in suffering for Christ is what we are Called to DO, my Brother...

Mat 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples,
If any man will come after me,
let him deny himself,
and take up his cross,
and follow Me.


Rom 6:3
Know ye not that as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ
were baptized into his death?


Christ died suffering, Menno...

If you are not suffering...
You are not baptized...
At least, you are...
Not into Christ's Death...


Arsenios
 
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