What is DISCIPLING?

[MennoSota]

Good answer, Menno...

You are not as dumb as I look...

(But who COULD be?).

So what does the Bible record of what the Apostles and disciples of the Lord DID with the images of Christ which they retained in their memories?


Arsenios

There is no information. Some, inspired by God, wrote as the Spirit directed them. There is never any indication of iconography.

 

[MennoSota]

Show me in Galations what is written about Judaizers that you are seeing me doing...

I mean, it is you making the charge, not me...

I read Galatians and do not see your meaning, ok?


Arsenios

The entire book talks about those who are teaching retaining salvation by obedience rather than recognizing salvation is always by grace through faith.
You teach that Christians can lose their salvation if they do not diligently confess all sins and follow a pattern of constant repentance. This teaching is parallel with the teaching Paul condemns in Galatians.
I am sorry you cannot see.

 

[Arsenios]

There is no information. Some, inspired by God, wrote as the Spirit directed them. There is never any indication of iconography.

We see the Sacred Art of the Church as giving to us the images which the Apostles saw first hand...

Christ Himself fabricated the first Icon

Do you remember when He did so?

Made without hands, as I recall...

Luke did the first one with paint...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

We see the Sacred Art of the Church as giving to us the images which the Apostles saw first hand...

Christ Himself fabricated the first Icon

Do you remember when He did so?

Made without hands, as I recall...

Luke did the first one with paint...


Arsenios

You do realize you are stating undocumented opinion with no biblical support... don't you?

You reveal how you elevate traditions and myths over and above God and His word.

 

[Arsenios]

The entire book talks about those who are teaching retaining salvation by obedience rather than recognizing salvation is always by grace through faith.
You teach that Christians can lose their salvation if they do not diligently confess all sins and follow a pattern of constant repentance. This teaching is parallel with the teaching Paul condemns in Galatians.

I am sorry you cannot see.

Well that makes a little more sense then -

Where in Galatians does Paul condemn diligence in confessing one's sins

And where does he condemn vigilance in repenting from one's sins?

Judaizers were packs of foreskin snippers, as I am recalling...

Thank-you...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

You do realize you are stating undocumented opinion with no biblical support... don't you?

You reveal how you elevate traditions and myths over and above God and His word.

The Icon Made Without Hands is recorded in Holy Scripture, Menno...

Made by Christ Himself...

Luke merely imitated Christ with paint...

And yes, Luke's iconography is recorded by the Church, the Ground and Pillar of the Truth...


Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

2Cor 4:4 records that Christ is the EIKON of Christ, His very Image...
We do not worship His Image, but He Himself...
Yet His Image we venerate while worshipping Christ Himself...
We are not ashamed of our Lord...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Well that makes a little more sense then -

Where in Galatians does Paul condemn diligence in confessing one's sins

And where does he condemn vigilance in repenting from one's sins?

Judaizers were packs of foreskin snippers, as I am recalling...

Thank-you...


Arsenios

Judaizers require added works to maintain salvation. (Is the lightbulb going to turn on?)

 

[MennoSota]

2Cor 4:4 records that Christ is the EIKON of Christ, His very Image...
We do not worship His Image, but He Himself...
Yet His Image we venerate while worshipping Christ Himself...
We are not ashamed of our Lord...


Arsenios

Arsenios, you're grasping at straws and begging for a prooftext.

 

[Arsenios]

Judaizers require added works to maintain salvation. (Is the lightbulb going to turn on?)

Yes - The Works of the Mosaic Law...

Those works are no longer done in Christ...


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Yes - The Works of the Mosaic Law...

Those works are no longer done in Christ...


Arsenios

Any works attempted to retain salvation falls under the same umbrella. As long as you think your own actions affect your salvation, you fall under the Judaizer teaching.

 

[Arsenios]

Any works attempted to retain salvation falls under the same umbrella.

The Bible says that we must endure, persevering to the end, so that we SHALL BE SAVED...

Mat 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for My Name's sake:
but he that endureth to the end
shall be saved.

What do you think Christ meant, Menno, to be enduring to the END??

As long as you think your own actions affect your salvation,
you fall under the Judaizer teaching.

Are you calling Christ a Judaizer?

Judaizers believed in the Law of Moses, their Father...

We believe in the Commandments of Christ, our Father...

Keeping the Commandments of Christ to the END...

"That ye love one another..."

So whom is it, Menno, that Christ is telling to DO these things so that they SHALL be saved?


Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

The Bible says that we must endure, persevering to the end, so that we SHALL BE SAVED...

Mat 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for My Name's sake:
but he that endureth to the end
shall be saved.

What do you think Christ meant, Menno, to be enduring to the END??



Are you calling Christ a Judaizer?

Judaizers believed in the Law of Moses, their Father...

We believe in the Commandments of Christ, our Father...

Keeping the Commandments of Christ to the END...

"That ye love one another..."

So whom is it, Menno, that Christ is telling to DO these things so that they SHALL be saved?


Arsenios

I think you butcher Matthew 10.
Pay attention to the context because your prooftext isn't about salvation of the soul for the disciples. My goodness, Arsenios, for a learned person, you sure butcher things in order to preach your false gospel.
Your prooftexting is shocking.
Matthew 10:5-7,16-23
These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’
“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. Beware of men, for they will deliver you over to courts and flog you in their synagogues, and you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. When they deliver you over, do not be anxious how you are to speak or what you are to say, for what you are to say will be given to you in that hour. For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you. Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

[atpollard]

Not only what is it but what is it for?

And who is to do it?

And what does it disciple?

Is discipling mere teaching from the lectern?

Is it sermonizing from the pulpit?

What does Christ mean when He is recorded saying to the Apostles:

"Go - Disciple all the Nations...
Teaching them to observe precisely ALL that I have commanded you...
Baptizing them in the Name...
Of the Father
and of the Son
and of the Holy Spirit."

(My literal translation - Disciple is a verb)


Arsenios

“I am just one beggar, telling another beggar, where I found bread.” - Steve Brown

“It is not your responsibility to lead them across the finish line, that is God’s job. You just need to point them towards the next step.” - Henry DeWeerd