No.
You adding "thus....." is illogical, silly and NOT anything I ever said, as everyone here knows.
Here's what I said: Jesus died for all. I never have said what "L" does and what you have, I have NEVER parroted your new denomination tradition: that Jesus did NOT die for all but rather only, exclusively, solely, just for an unknowable, limited few. They are NOT "the same thing." "ALL' and "NOT ALL but only a limited few" are not the same thing. How silly... how absurd... of your to insist they are "the same thing" and I'm "agreeing with you" that Jesus died for ONLY a few.
Stop accusing me of agreeing with your horrible denomination tradition. And your sudden ploy of "But you AGREE with me!" is not only a lie but it's not substantiation. "You agree" doesn't substantiate ANY position, it's not apologtics.
No. "Where faith is not present, the individual does not receive the benefit of what Christ truly did for them " is NOT the same thing as saying "Christ died for only, exclusively, solely, just for an unknowable limited few, actually doing nothing for most people. " Your claim is silly. They are not "the same thing." How absurd. How evasion. How do you think you're substantiating your denomination tradition of Jesus did NOT die for all but rather, instead, died for only, exclusively, solely, just for an unknowable few." You're just playing the shell game.
I'm accepting what the Bible clearly says.... I'm accepting the Council of Orange.... I'm accepting 2000 years of Christianity.... I'm standing with every Calvinist personally known to me.... Jesus died for all. What He did is REAL - not for most a fake, a fraud, a cruel joke, a false promise. I'm saying what He did is REAL. He died for ALL. And ALL does NOT mean NOT all but only, exclusively, solely, just an unknowable limited few. Does it benefit all? Not if there is no faith. I'm NOT limiting Christ's work - as you are. I'm NOT saying Jesus died NOT for all, I'm saying He died for all. Amazing you won't acknowledge the difference.
It's interesting you suddenly want to agree with me. And if you now join with nearly all other Calvinists, and indeed with all historic biblical Christianity, in repudiating the "L" of TULIP (Jesus only died for an unknown few, NOT ALL), GOOD! Say so. But it's just absurd to try to claim that "ALL" = NOT all but only, exclusively, solely, just for an unknowable limited few. NO. A thousand times no, I do NOT accept the "L" of TULIP, I do NOT accept the horrible, unbiblical dogma that Jesus died for only, exclusively, solely, just an unknownable few. Your amazing and absurd sudden attempt to say "I agree with you" to the contrary.
Here's what Scripture states:
1 John 2:2, "Jesus is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
OURS.... and not ONLY ours.... but ALSO for the sins of "the whole world" NOT, "For an unknowable few people who just happen to live on Earth"
Hebrews 2:9 "....Jesus tasted death for everyone."
EVERYONE.... not "just for an unknowable few"
1 Timothy 4:10 "...For Christ is the Savior of all people, especially those who believe."
Not "of only a few people but not most." "Especially for those who believe" because via faith, it is received by the individual (subjective justification).
Isaiah 53:6, "... and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all"
This prophecy is of Jesus... for those who have sin, Jesus died. For all of them. NOT "Not for all but only, exclusively, solely, just for a limited few."
John 4:42, ".... for Jesus is indeed the Savior of the world."
World. Not "of a tiny few who happen to be in the world." The verse makes no sense at all if it means only "the chosen" since the woman saying this was not a Jew and thus would not understand herself as chosen.
2 Corinthians 5:14-15, "That one had died for all.... that one has died for all."
Not "NOT for all but only, solely, exclusively, just for a limited FEW."
1 Timothy 4:6, "Who gave Himself as a random for all."
NOT, "Not for all but only, exclusively, solely, just for a limited few - and odds are, that's not you."
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son .... whosoever believes....."
NOT, "For God so loved only, exclusively, solely, just a tiny few who happen to be in the world....." NOT "whosoever believes but ONLY if Jesus actually died for them which He probably didn't."
And so many, many more...
NOW.... where are the verses that state the "L", where is stated the new denomination tradition of "Jesus did NOT die for all, but rather, instead, died for only, exclusively, solely, just an unknowable limited few people." Where are those verses? Are you hearing crickets? Are you just seeing evasion.... the shell game.... the silly idea that if self can ask a question the denomination tradition ergo must be right?
For 400 + years, radical Calvinists have been asked for a verse.... even just one.... anywhere.... that states that Jesus died for ONLY a few. But in 400 + years, not one of them has been able to find any such verse. Nothing. Not one. All they can do is quote a verse and INSERT the word "only" into it so as to reverse what it says.
So.... we have SO many verses that specifically say Jesus died for "everyone" "the whole world" "all" but not one verse that says that's not true, Jesus died ONLY for a few.
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opcorn:
