Christ Gave Himself Up Only For the Church

[ImaginaryDay2]

What specific question?

I quoted you, I quoted my answer to you. I've done what you asked me to do. Go bother someone else

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Actually mennas is quite keen. I saw the subtlety of the universal creed also.
The stench was unmistakeabl. They are attempting to use guile in having people repeat an oath.

Yet nothing will sever the bond of peace given to the Faithful elect.

Try as they might, it is the universal attempt at futility. Lucifer no longer has the keys of death. Hence the whore and her offspring seeking death and not finding it.

You can go bother someone else, too

 

[Andrew]

That depends on how you phrase the question. For example, "did Christ fail to sin?"

Still sounds ridiculous, 'Christ' and 'fail' just don't go together

 

[MennoSota]

I quoted you, I quoted my answer to you. I've done what you asked me to do. Go bother someone else

What is the specific question? You claimed I didn't answer a question. I cannot answer a question that I don't know I have been asked.

I started this thread. If you don't care to be questioned...stop posting.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Still sounds ridiculous, 'Christ' and 'fail' just don't go together

The question "did Christ's atonement fail for <insert something here>?" is gaming the CH chatters. It is not serious. It is a troll. It is as ridiculous as "did Christ fail at sinning?".

 

[Andrew]

True, but if Christ atoned for all humanity then all humanity must be atoned for. In that line of belief, all humanity must be going to heaven because all their sins are paid for.
But...Josiah, ID2, MC, Lamm, Albion, Arsenios, etc., will not agree with that. Instead, they will say that Christ fully atoned for sins, but humans can reject the atonement and sin greater than Jesus blood can atone. They claim that unbelief can conquer Jesus atonement for sin.
So, as long as they refuse to acknowledge the contradiction in their theology, they will fight for unbelief as the conqueror over Jesus sacrificial payment.

My position is that Jesus sacrifice was only for those the Father has given him. Not one drop of His blood was ineffective to fully pay for sin. God not only saves, but He secures the belief of all whom the Father has given him. His chosen can not not believe.
Josiah says that he can fall away into perdition and God can't save him if Josiah so chooses to fall. He makes Jesus words to be false when Jesus tells his chosen that He would never leave them nor forsake them. He makes Paul a liar when Paul says there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

Jesus's atonement was clearly for the sinner.
As for the dead in Faith/all sinners, God knows that we pray for them. We ask for more than a sign after death, we ask for the cleansing of their soul ASAP just as Christ begged for on the cross "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". Catholics pray for what 'you' know as "Universalism" but it's truly nothing short of what Jesus taught, God wants ALL of mankind to be with HIM, the Word tells us that not all will believe... In fact it tells us that many won't believe and will be Anti-Christ (you are either for or against), so their salvation is left at the Mercy seat of condemnation by God, no other way... The saved are called the Elect on that last and final day of judgment, but for now we are all equal to be judged.

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" -Ephesians 4:30

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

What is the specific question? You claimed I didn't answer a question. I cannot answer a question that I don't know I have been asked.

See HERE

I started this thread.

And??

If you don't care to be questioned...stop posting.

Back at ya

 

[MennoSota]

Jesus's atonement was clearly for the sinner.
As for the dead in Faith/all sinners, God knows that we pray for them. We ask for more than a sign after death, we ask for the cleansing of their soul ASAP just as Christ begged for on the cross "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". Catholics pray for what 'you' know as "Universalism" but it's truly nothing short of what Jesus taught, God wants ALL of mankind to be with HIM, the Word tells us that not all will believe... In fact it tells us that many won't believe and will be Anti-Christ (you are either for or against), so their salvation is left at the Mercy seat of condemnation by God, no other way... The saved are called the Elect on that last and final day of judgment, but for now we are all equal to be judged.

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" -Ephesians 4:30

Indeed, Jesus atonement is for sinners. There is no need to atone for the sinless.
Ephesians 1:3-10


English Standard Version Ephesians 1:3-10 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

https://play.google.com/store/search?q=lqjgames&c=apps

 

[MennoSota]

See HERE



And??



Back at ya

Do you mean this?

Has Christ returned? And on another note, shall we judge Christ of being "successful" as if he were being evaluated on his performance?

I answered this question.
Jesus has not returned.
What does that have to do with Jesus atoning only for the elect?
Christ promises that He will save everyone His Father has given him. God is very successful.
But, you claim that Christ atoned for all humanity. Did God give all humanity to Jesus? Is all humanity saved? Are you unsure? Can you not determine if even one person died apart from salvation?
Why are you struggling with Jesus only atoning the person's God the Father has given him?

 

[Andrew]

Indeed, Jesus atonement is for sinners. There is no need to atone for the sinless.
Ephesians 1:3-10


English Standard Version Ephesians 1:3-10 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

https://play.google.com/store/search?q=lqjgames&c=apps

 

[pinacled]

Jesus's atonement was clearly for the sinner.
As for the dead in Faith/all sinners, God knows that we pray for them. We ask for more than a sign after death, we ask for the cleansing of their soul ASAP just as Christ begged for on the cross "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do". Catholics pray for what 'you' know as "Universalism" but it's truly nothing short of what Jesus taught, God wants ALL of mankind to be with HIM, the Word tells us that not all will believe... In fact it tells us that many won't believe and will be Anti-Christ (you are either for or against), so their salvation is left at the Mercy seat of condemnation by God, no other way... The saved are called the Elect on that last and final day of judgment, but for now we are all equal to be judged.



"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" -Ephesians 4:30

A seal is given only to those who have walked in the Shekinah.

What color thread are you willing to offer here.

Mennas has been to the altr.
You have not.

 

[Andrew]

A seal is given only to those who have walked in the Shekinah.

What color thread are you willing to offer here.

Mennas has been to the altr.
You have not.

I'm sorry but could you clarify? What color thread? Shekinah? :/

 

[Josiah]

I see the opening poster began an identical thread to rehash his same evasions we've seen for 28 pages here....

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Well, at least there's some scripture and commentary to make a case. That's new

 

[MennoSota]

I see the opening poster began an identical thread to rehash his same evasions we've seen for 28 pages here....

I notice that the original thread was deleted.

 

[MennoSota]

Luke 2
13And suddenly there was with the angel*a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying,

14“Glory to God*in the highest,

and on earth*peace*among those with whom he is pleased!”

Notice the angels state:
"...peace among those with whom he (God) is pleased."
Question: Is God pleased with the entire world or does His pleasure rest upon those whom He has granted salvation?
Even the angels declare that Christ came to provide peace to the elect. His atoning sacrifice is for the elect, with whom He is pleased to grant peace.

 

[psalms 91]

I dont know what version that is but it reads peace on earth goodwill towards men, not what that says

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Notice the angels state:
"...peace among those with whom he (God) is pleased."
Question: Is God pleased with the entire world or does His pleasure rest upon those whom He has granted salvation?
Even the angels declare that Christ came to provide peace to the elect. His atoning sacrifice is for the elect, with whom He is pleased to grant peace.

Okay. I'm going to play nice. Just putting that out there.
Second, Christ's sacrifice is effective for the whole world - for all. However, not all will believe and be saved. I read something last night that addressed how one could respond to the gospel - believe the word - therefore making the conditions right to be granted faith ("repent and believe the gospel" as it were). The example used was of Peter. When Peter was called, he still had to leave his nets of his own volition. He was not dragged away. Was he 'saved' by his obedience? No. However, the conditions were made right for him to be granted faith by that action.

That same 'call' goes to the whole world - "repent and believe the gospel". Will the "whole world" repent and believe, making the conditions right for them to be granted faith? No. However, it does not "prove" that the call has not gone to the whole world.

 

[MennoSota]

I dont know what version that is but it reads peace on earth goodwill towards men, not what that says

PS91, both translations are used. I quoted from the ESV so that those who pine for exact translation could I not complain.
The translation I used is accurate to the greek.

 

[MennoSota]

ID2 I will breakdown your points (I am having problems with Tapatalk so bear with me).
You wrote:
Second, Christ's sacrifice is effective for the whole world - for all. However, not all will believe and be saved.

Let's assume you are correct.
1) Christ's sacrifice is effective for the whole world.
If that is correct, then all are saved. It is effective.
2) "not all will believe and be saved."
This contradicts your first statement. If the sacrifice of Christ is effective, then those for whom it is effective...will...believe and be saved. But, you say that the atonement is effective...yet it is not effective.
Why?
Because human will trumps (is greater than) the effectiveness of Jesus atonement.
The will of humans to not believe, beats the will of God to effectively atone for all human sin.
That is what you are teaching.