Christ Gave Himself Up Only For the Church

[MennoSota]

Jesus atoning sacrifice was only for the elect who make up the church.

Reading in Ephesians 5:
25Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and*gave himself up for her,*26that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by*the washing of water*with the word,*27so*that he might present the church to himself in splendor,*without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.

We see that Jesus gave himself up for the church, not for the whole world. Jesus gave himself up for the church so that he might sanctify (set apart) the church and present the church as being without blemish.
Jesus did not give himself for the world (universal) as some people attempt to convey from John 3:16...even though John 3 teaches God's election of those who would believe.

 

[Andrew]

°

 

[psalms 91]

For God so loved the world, Jesus died for all but not all will accept the gift.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Jesus atoning sacrifice was only for the elect who make up the church.

You're right. The Lord Jesus Christ died for the elect. But your idea of who and what the elect are is mistaken.

Ephesians 5:22-33 Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. [SUP]23[/SUP] For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the Saviour. [SUP]24[/SUP] Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their husbands. [SUP]25[/SUP] Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, [SUP]26[/SUP] in order to make her holy by cleansing her with the washing of water by the word, [SUP]27[/SUP] so as to present the church to himself in splendour, without a spot or wrinkle or anything of the kind--yes, so that she may be holy and without blemish. [SUP]28[/SUP] In the same way, husbands should love their wives as they do their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [SUP]29[/SUP] For no one ever hates his own body, but he nourishes and tenderly cares for it, just as Christ does for the church, [SUP]30[/SUP] because we are members of his body. [SUP]31[/SUP] 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' [SUP]32[/SUP] This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the church. [SUP]33[/SUP] Each of you, however, should love his wife as himself, and a wife should respect her husband.

Christ died for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:1-6 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; [SUP]2[/SUP] and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. [SUP]3[/SUP] Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. [SUP]4[/SUP] Whoever says, 'I have come to know him', but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; [SUP]5[/SUP] but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: [SUP]6[/SUP] whoever says, 'I abide in him', ought to walk just as he walked.

Keep your eyes open, read the holy scriptures with understanding as adults. Stop being children in your level of understanding.

 

[MennoSota]

You're right. The Lord Jesus Christ died for the elect. But your idea of who and what the elect are is mistaken.

Ephesians 5:22-33 Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. [SUP]23[/SUP] For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the Saviour. [SUP]24[/SUP] Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their husbands. [SUP]25[/SUP] Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, [SUP]26[/SUP] in order to make her holy by cleansing her with the washing of water by the word, [SUP]27[/SUP] so as to present the church to himself in splendour, without a spot or wrinkle or anything of the kind--yes, so that she may be holy and without blemish. [SUP]28[/SUP] In the same way, husbands should love their wives as they do their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [SUP]29[/SUP] For no one ever hates his own body, but he nourishes and tenderly cares for it, just as Christ does for the church, [SUP]30[/SUP] because we are members of his body. [SUP]31[/SUP] 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' [SUP]32[/SUP] This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the church. [SUP]33[/SUP] Each of you, however, should love his wife as himself, and a wife should respect her husband.

Christ died for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:1-6 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; [SUP]2[/SUP] and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. [SUP]3[/SUP] Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. [SUP]4[/SUP] Whoever says, 'I have come to know him', but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; [SUP]5[/SUP] but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: [SUP]6[/SUP] whoever says, 'I abide in him', ought to walk just as he walked.

Keep your eyes open, read the holy scriptures with understanding as adults. Stop being children in your level of understanding.

1 John 2 is referring to all social groups, economic status groups, etc. It is not saying that all humanity is atoned for. If all were atoned for...all would be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5 tells us that Jesus makes the church holy and without blemish, not the world.

 

[MoreCoffee]

1 John 2 is referring to all social groups, economic status groups, etc. It is not saying that all humanity is atoned for. If all were atoned for...all would be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5 tells us that Jesus makes the church holy and without blemish, not the world.

You are in error, as so many protestants are. You cannot read holy scripture with understanding because you've cut yourself off from the source that gives insight into the holy scriptures.

 

[MennoSota]

You are in error, as so many protestants are. You cannot read holy scripture with understanding because you've cut yourself off from the source that gives insight into the holy scriptures.

Stick with scripture. Your state appointed cult is convoluted.
Ephesians 5 tells us whom Jesus gave himself for and it wasn't for the whole world.

 

[NewCreation435]

I'm so glad to see this non controversial thread. It's about time :O_O:

 

[tango]

1 John 2 is referring to all social groups, economic status groups, etc. It is not saying that all humanity is atoned for. If all were atoned for...all would be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5 tells us that Jesus makes the church holy and without blemish, not the world.

So "the whole world" means "different social groups" rather than "the whole world"?

 

[MennoSota]

So "the whole world" means "different social groups" rather than "the whole world"?

Context is important.
The Apostles make it clear that the Gospel is not just for Jews. It's not just for the poor. It's not just for the rich.
Galatians 3:28
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave*nor free,*there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Colossians 3:11
"Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave,*free; but Christ is*all, and in all.

12Put on then, as*God’s chosen ones..."

So...whole world does NOT mean "universal world" as you are wishing.

 

[Josiah]

We see that Jesus gave himself up for the church, not for the whole world

You must insert a missing word into the text to get that; you must insert "ONLY" which doesn't exist. And you must ignore MUCH of what God has clearly proclaimed, such as...


1 John 2:2

Isaiah 53:6

Luke 19:10

2 Corinthians 5:14-15

Hebrews 2:9

John 1:29

1 John 4:14

John 4:42

John 3:14-16 (see with Numbers 21 where the staff is for ALL who look upon it)

and so much more...


There is a reason why the vast, vast majority of Christians repudiate this horrible doctrine.... it is held by only a tiny minority of Calvinists. It simply contradicts God's clear and bold teaching.... and means that faith is irrelevant and assurance is impossible. It simply means that he with faith has NO CLUE as to whether he is saved because God's mercy, grace, love, forgiveness are for a minority of unspecified persons (and probably includes self), Jesus died for only a minority of unspecifided people so probably that doesn't include self. One may have faith in Christ... but Christ likely is not for them, thus their faith is grasping at absolute emptiness.




.

 

[MennoSota]

You must insert a missing word into the text to get that; you must insert "ONLY" which doesn't exist. And you must ignore MUCH of what God has clearly proclaimed, such as...


1 John 2:2

Isaiah 53:6

Luke 19:10

2 Corinthians 5:14-15

Hebrews 2:9

John 1:29

1 John 4:14

John 4:42

John 3:14-16 (see with Numbers 21 where the staff is for ALL who look upon it)

and so much more...


There is a reason why the vast, vast majority of Christians repudiate this horrible doctrine.... it is held by only a tiny minority of Calvinists. It simply contradicts God's clear and bold teaching.... and means that faith is irrelevant and assurance is impossible. It simply means that he with faith has NO CLUE as to whether he is saved because God's mercy, grace, love, forgiveness are for a minority of unspecified persons (and probably includes self), Jesus died for only a minority of unspecifided people so probably that doesn't include self. One may have faith in Christ... but Christ likely is not for them, thus their faith is grasping at absolute emptiness.




.

There is no need to insert anything, Josiah.
I must not ignore anything, Josiah.
Why is God's Sovereign election, predestination and choosing considered horrible...to you?
What does the text tell us, Josiah?

 

[MoreCoffee]

So "the whole world" means "different social groups" rather than "the whole world"?

It only means that when you read the passage thus:

1 John 2:1-6 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world for the sins of all the elect no matter what social strata they come from [SUP][correcting the obvious error in the bible so that it fits John Calvin's teachings better][/SUP]. 3 Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. 4 Whoever says, 'I have come to know him', but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; 5 but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 whoever says, 'I abide in him', ought to walk just as he walked.​

But if a chap is prepared to do that then why bother with the bible for any teaching. Just change the sola from sola scriptura to sola Calvinus.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm so glad to see this non controversial thread. It's about time :O_O:

I think it's been done in CH at least 5 times before.

 

[tango]

Context is important.
The Apostles make it clear that the Gospel is not just for Jews. It's not just for the poor. It's not just for the rich.
Galatians 3:28
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave*nor free,*there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Colossians 3:11
"Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave,*free; but Christ is*all, and in all.

12Put on then, as*God’s chosen ones..."

So...whole world does NOT mean "universal world" as you are wishing.

Your rather curious blend of Paul's teaching with John's teaching really doesn't work.

To say that we are all one in Christ Jesus (i.e. slave and free are equal, male and female are equal, Jew and Greek are equal) and then conclude from this that "the whole world" doesn't mean "the whole world" is a rather curious step of reasoning.

If only Paul had thought to say "you are all one in Christ Jesus, as long as you are one of the Special Few - too bad for the others because they can go hang"

When Peter wrote how God was "longsuffering with us, not wishing that any should perish", I wonder what kind of bumbling halfwit he was talking about, who apparently created untold billions of people knowing from before the dawn of time that they would perish yet still wishing they would not.

Perhaps Isaiah also got it wrong in chapter 61, maybe he should have written "The LORD has anointed me to preach good tidings to a few of the poor, to heal a handful of the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to carefully preselected captives".

Paul often likened the Christian walk to a race. Imagine the concept of running a marathon, giving it your all, finally getting to the end only to realise that instead of getting the medal for finishing you got shot because you weren't one of the chosen few. It turns the assurance of salvation into little more than a crapshoot, except the snake-eyes don't just watch, they bite. Even Jesus referred to "when you did it unto the least of these, you did it unto me" with no mention of those cast away being told "Yeah, I know you did it unto the least of these but hey, guess what, you weren't chosen from before the dawn of time so you might as well not have bothered".

 

[MennoSota]

Your rather curious blend of Paul's teaching with John's teaching really doesn't work.

To say that we are all one in Christ Jesus (i.e. slave and free are equal, male and female are equal, Jew and Greek are equal) and then conclude from this that "the whole world" doesn't mean "the whole world" is a rather curious step of reasoning.

If only Paul had thought to say "you are all one in Christ Jesus, as long as you are one of the Special Few - too bad for the others because they can go hang"

When Peter wrote how God was "longsuffering with us, not wishing that any should perish", I wonder what kind of bumbling halfwit he was talking about, who apparently created untold billions of people knowing from before the dawn of time that they would perish yet still wishing they would not.

Perhaps Isaiah also got it wrong in chapter 61, maybe he should have written "The LORD has anointed me to preach good tidings to a few of the poor, to heal a handful of the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to carefully preselected captives".

Paul often likened the Christian walk to a race. Imagine the concept of running a marathon, giving it your all, finally getting to the end only to realise that instead of getting the medal for finishing you got shot because you weren't one of the chosen few. It turns the assurance of salvation into little more than a crapshoot, except the snake-eyes don't just watch, they bite. Even Jesus referred to "when you did it unto the least of these, you did it unto me" with no mention of those cast away being told "Yeah, I know you did it unto the least of these but hey, guess what, you weren't chosen from before the dawn of time so you might as well not have bothered".

Note that all those writings you provide were given to God's elect, not to pagan friends. There is a specific audience that the writers are writing to.
You cannot possibly imagine that the world is universally saved so that no one will ever perish? Or are you a pure universalist who ignores hell like a plague?

 

[Albion]

So "the whole world" means "different social groups" rather than "the whole world"?

Well, if it meant the whole world without any further qualifications, it would be describing Universalism. Is that what you think it means?

 

[Arsenios]

By saving mankind Christ IS saving His Creation...
Beginning with Himself becoming the Son of Man...
Through the Birth-Giving of the Blessed Virgin...
The Nativity of our Lord, God and Savior...

May you all have a Blessed Season of that Nativity...
Where God became man...
That man be united in God...


Arsenios

 

[psalms 91]

Well, if it meant the whole world without any further qualifications, it would be describing Universalism. Is that what you think it means?

I think the whole world means the whole world and just because He paid the price and gave us this gift it can still be refused, Not Gods fault if you go to hell, simply rejecting the Son does that.

 

[Albion]

I think the whole world means the whole world and just because He paid the price and gave us this gift it can still be refused, Not Gods fault if you go to hell, simply rejecting the Son does that.

Sounds logical at first, but if the price for the sins of the whole world were indeed paid, it would not make the slightest difference if a person accepted or rejected the Son. He would already be freed from the guilt for sin, which is the only reason for anyone to be hell-bound.