The problem with "Christian" music today

[Andrew]

The struggle over contemporary vs old hymns is one reason I like Indelible Grace Music. IG takes the great hymns and rearranges them in modern sound.
http://www.igracemusic.com
"Heal Us" is a good example.
https://youtu.be/k8EA-EcBMMg

I could listen to this for sure

 

[Albion]

Talk about dreary and repetitious. :noway:



The question here does seem to be one asking for whom the hymn lyrics are intended--for the for the entertainment of the person in church or OTOH as praise of God.

 

[Albion]

Ouch yes it's very true, here are the lyrics to George Harrison's hit song "My Sweet Lord"
Notice how he throws in Hare Krishna towards the end...

........

Well, he doesn't just throw it in. The song is about Krishna, in praise of the Hindu god Lord Krishna.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I won't sit through a traditional service. it puts me to sleep and bores me...

Hmmm...

And there was a young man named Eutychus sitting on the window sill, sinking into a deep sleep; and as Paul kept on talking, he was overcome by sleep and fell down from the third floor and was picked up dead.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

This subject has been addressed before recently. For whatever reason there's some pervasive need- even in 'traditional' churches - to move in a modern direction. Ours has integrated Hillsong and other such modern tracks into the services along with more traditional hymns. I suppose it's fine, however I don't sing along. It's been accepted by the majority and the Lutheran service books have been quietly packed away. it's preferable, still, because of doctrinal issues - I don't plan to go elsewhere. I just don't sing the modern tracks. Some aren't really meant to be sung collectively either (imo). I'm not a "worship leader". I can hardly carry a tune. And some of the melodies hit so many different ranges I know I couldn't keep up.

 

[Andrew]

Well, he doesn't just throw it in. The song is about Krishna, in praise of the Hindu god Lord Krishna.

It's a parody of Christian music im sure of it, he made that song about eastern gods and his Lord is not our Lord obviously

 

[Albion]

It's a parody of Christian music im sure of it, he made that song about eastern gods and his Lord is not our Lord obviously

Why would it be a parody?

 

[Josiah]

This subject has been addressed before recently. For whatever reason there's some pervasive need- even in 'traditional' churches - to move in a modern direction. Ours has integrated Hillsong and other such modern tracks into the services along with more traditional hymns. I suppose it's fine, however I don't sing along. It's been accepted by the majority and the Lutheran service books have been quietly packed away. it's preferable, still, because of doctrinal issues - I don't plan to go elsewhere. I just don't sing the modern tracks. Some aren't really meant to be sung collectively either (imo). I'm not a "worship leader". I can hardly carry a tune. And some of the melodies hit so many different ranges I know I couldn't keep up.

You add a valid point.....

HYMNS were typically written for congregations to sing.... a grand mixture of voices (most of whom can't sing very well)... they are songs written for worship by the congregation. IMO, it seems a LOT of "contemporary" and "praise" songs were actually written for some "star" to sing, written for a soloist (or at most a small semi-professional group). The result is that they often aren't easy to sing for a whole congregation.

My "problem" with so many of these newbie "Christian" songs is not the music (which may or may not be good, but then that applies to Traditional hymns, too) but the lyrics. Which are often empty, highly emotional, individualistic ("me, me, me") and lacking any Law or Gospel. If they are void of the Word, they aren't likely to be used by the Holy Spirit. And getting to focus OFF universaal, objective truth to individualistic emotion is a dangerous thing, IMO. Again, there are "Traditional" hymns that are at fault in that way, too.


- Josiah



LSB is filled with really good hymns! Too bad your parish "packed them away."



.

 

[tango]

Well, he doesn't just throw it in. The song is about Krishna, in praise of the Hindu god Lord Krishna.

The song as written is clearly intended to be in praise of Krishna. The point is that until the recipient of the praise is revealed towards the end, the song looks very much like the kind of thing that might pass as a modern praise song in a church. Lots of words about praise and our longing and very little of any substance. Absent the references to Krishna at the end the song could easily be regarded as being directed towards any deity or deities. There's nothing in there about what the recipient of praise has done to deserve the praise - it's all "I want to see you", "I want to know you" - it's just another me, me, me song.

 

[tango]

You add a valid point.....

HYMNS were typically written for congregations to sing.... a grand mixture of voices (most of whom can't sing very well)... they are songs written for worship by the congregation. IMO, it seems a LOT of "contemporary" and "praise" songs were actually written for some "star" to sing, written for a soloist (or at most a small semi-professional group). The result is that they often aren't easy to sing for a whole congregation.

My "problem" with so many of these newbie "Christian" songs is not the music (which may or may not be good, but then that applies to Traditional hymns, too) but the lyrics. Which are often empty, highly emotional, individualistic ("me, me, me") and lacking any Law or Gospel. If they are void of the Word, they aren't likely to be used by the Holy Spirit. And getting to focus OFF universaal, objective truth to individualistic emotion is a dangerous thing, IMO. Again, there are "Traditional" hymns that are at fault in that way, too.


- Josiah

.

You make a great point about the notion of songs being designed for performance as much as congregational singing. To follow on from it, I think when churches do end up being more about entertainment than congregations taking part another danger is that it creates the same kind of high/euphoria that you'd expect at any other concert. But since it happens inside a church building people are then sold the line it's a move of God when really it's nothing more than an emotional response to the music. I've thought for some time now that when you can predict with 95% accuracy when all the hands in church will go up, chances are it's a response to the music rather than a response to the Holy Spirit moving.

The real danger with the euphoria being confused with a move of the Holy Spirit (or, worse, people being actively told that it is the Spirit moving) is that people end up chasing emotional highs thinking they are seeking God, and people end up spending Monday morning wondering what they did wrong to cause the Spirit to leave them. If you sing of God's love on Sunday but the feeling is gone by Monday, chances are what you felt was an emotional high.

An example of the use of music to guide emotions is from the song In Christ Alone - this verse starts with instruments muted if not silenced:

There in the ground his body lay
Light of world by darkness slain

(instruments come in full force here)
Then bursting forth in glorious day
Up from the grave he rose again

(boost volume of instruments, watch for the hands going up)
And as he stands in victory
Sin's curse has lost its grip on me


I quite like the song overall, I just find it concerning the way that particular verse tends (in some churches at least) to feature a musical score that seems designed to generate an emotional response, and noticed it in particular because of the way hands were raised across the church at exactly the same time, every time.

 

[Krissy Cakes]

https://youtu.be/HB7gPIIQT7Y

:rotfl:

 

[Andrew]

Why would it be a parody?

Style parody, he basically admits to it.
I mentioned this video in another thread, it's the dvd that opened my eyes and ultimately caused me to rethink my atheism, seeing that the devil is real and working against God...
Now it took me a while to find the exact segment which speaks of Harrisons song, luckily I don't have to time stamp it because this part actually begins with it... so please watch it (only takes about a minute or two to complete my references to why Harrison wrote 'my sweet Lord')
Thanks
https://youtu.be/J6OwIhvEkHY

 

[MennoSota]

There is some really solid contemporary music being written and arranged. Sovereign Grace has been creating some wonderful songs.
Jesus Thank You is just one.
https://youtu.be/tHp8eThI2qk
Lyrics:
VERSE 1
The mystery of the cross I cannot comprehend
The agonies of Calvary
You the perfect Holy One, crushed Your Son
Who drank the bitter cup reserved for me

CHORUS
Your blood has washed away my sin
Jesus, thank You
The Father’s wrath completely satisfied
Jesus, thank You
Once Your enemy, now seated at Your table
Jesus, thank You

VERSE 2
By Your perfect sacrifice I’ve been brought near
Your enemy You’ve made Your friend
Pouring out the riches of Your glorious grace
Your mercy and Your kindness know no end

 

[Josiah]

You make a great point about the notion of songs being designed for performance as much as congregational singing. To follow on from it, I think when churches do end up being more about entertainment than congregations taking part another danger is that it creates the same kind of high/euphoria that you'd expect at any other concert. But since it happens inside a church building people are then sold the line it's a move of God when really it's nothing more than an emotional response to the music. I've thought for some time now that when you can predict with 95% accuracy when all the hands in church will go up, chances are it's a response to the music rather than a response to the Holy Spirit moving.

The real danger with the euphoria being confused with a move of the Holy Spirit (or, worse, people being actively told that it is the Spirit moving) is that people end up chasing emotional highs thinking they are seeking God, and people end up spending Monday morning wondering what they did wrong to cause the Spirit to leave them. If you sing of God's love on Sunday but the feeling is gone by Monday, chances are what you felt was an emotional high.

An example of the use of music to guide emotions is from the song In Christ Alone - this verse starts with instruments muted if not silenced:

There in the ground his body lay
Light of world by darkness slain

(instruments come in full force here)
Then bursting forth in glorious day
Up from the grave he rose again

(boost volume of instruments, watch for the hands going up)
And as he stands in victory
Sin's curse has lost its grip on me


I quite like the song overall, I just find it concerning the way that particular verse tends (in some churches at least) to feature a musical score that seems designed to generate an emotional response, and noticed it in particular because of the way hands were raised across the church at exactly the same time, every time.

Very good point.....

The focus can become on EMOTION rather than objective truth.... on ME rather than on Christ.... on how I feel rather than what Jesus did/does.

And I think it can make worship about effective entertainment... how effective it is in making me FEEL as I desire. Is that worship at all? Sin is served by me-ism.... and it is served by the "what am I getting out of it?" mentality.




.

 

[Josiah]

There is some really solid contemporary music being written and arranged. Sovereign Grace has been creating some wonderful songs.
Jesus Thank You is just one.

Lyrics:
VERSE 1
The mystery of the cross I cannot comprehend
The agonies of Calvary
You the perfect Holy One, crushed Your Son
Who drank the bitter cup reserved for me

CHORUS
Your blood has washed away my sin
Jesus, thank You
The Father’s wrath completely satisfied
Jesus, thank You
Once Your enemy, now seated at Your table
Jesus, thank You

VERSE 2
By Your perfect sacrifice I’ve been brought near
Your enemy You’ve made Your friend
Pouring out the riches of Your glorious grace
Your mercy and Your kindness know no end

Thank you!

It's good to remember that not all "Contemporary" songs stink (just like not all Traditional ones are good). To ME, the "issue" is not so much musical style (although I do like to able to sing the thing together as a congregation) but the lyrics. I've never heard of this song, but the lyrics are excellent!

 

[Albion]

It's good to remember that not all "Contemporary" songs stink (just like not all Traditional ones are good). To ME, the "issue" is not so much musical style (although I do like to able to sing the thing together as a congregation) but the lyrics. I've never heard of this song, but the lyrics are excellent!

I agree, but MOST of the non-traditional songs we are discussing do stink. I have to agree that it would be wrong to say they ALL do, or that all of the traditional hymns are wonderful. In general, however, the contemporary songs such as we have been discussing are shallow and simplistic (and that is to say nothing of them being emotion-jerking or centered on the singer rather than God-centered).

 

[Andrew]

Very good point.....

The focus can become on EMOTION rather than objective truth.... on ME rather than on Christ.... on how I feel rather than what Jesus did/does.

And I think it can make worship about effective entertainment... how effective it is in making me FEEL as I desire. Is that worship at all? Sin is served by me-ism.... and it is served by the "what am I getting out of it?" mentality.




.

Well we are encouraged to rejoice and to lift up our hands so I don't consider that as self satisfying, it's simply rejoicing in the spirit and has nothing to do with the flesh.
I have nothing against praise and worship music as long as the words used have significance and the songs aren't drawn out with solos and instrumental breaks

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I agree, but MOST of the non-traditional songs we are discussing do stink. I have to agree that it would be wrong to say they ALL do, or that all of the traditional hymns are wonderful. In general, however, the contemporary songs such as we have been discussing are shallow and simplistic (and that is to say nothing of them being emotion-jerking or centered on the singer rather than God-centered).

I agree. In context of a more 'traditional' church, these songs making an appearance is bothersome. About a month ago 'Revelation Song' (Kari Jobe) made an appearance at our service. I don't know if it was worse that the song was played or that our singers never bothered to look up from their sheet music. It's so rote that I wonder "why bother"? And then I talked with a guy after service yesterday who was carrying a guitar case. I commented that I didn't hear him play, and he said that he was playing in the narthex before service, and that he prefers classical music!

So - we have talented folks in our midst, but we go to Kari Jobe... what?

 

[tango]

Well we are encouraged to rejoice and to lift up our hands so I don't consider that as self satisfying, it's simply rejoicing in the spirit and has nothing to do with the flesh.
I have nothing against praise and worship music as long as the words used have significance and the songs aren't drawn out with solos and instrumental breaks

We are encouraged to rejoice but I'm not sure that gathering in a church building to sing "happy happy, joy joy, Jesus Jesus, woo!" is really what the writer had in mind.

 

[tango]

I agree, but MOST of the non-traditional songs we are discussing do stink. I have to agree that it would be wrong to say they ALL do, or that all of the traditional hymns are wonderful. In general, however, the contemporary songs such as we have been discussing are shallow and simplistic (and that is to say nothing of them being emotion-jerking or centered on the singer rather than God-centered).

It's easy to discuss contemporary songs that are either theologically empty or theologically toxic, not least because it's easy to find examples of both, but good to remember (as you say) that a song isn't garbage just because it's contemporary.

I know a song from the 1980s doesn't count as "contemporary" in the same way a song from a couple of years back does but I suppose it is "contemporary" in that it was written within living memory unlike the contents of "Hymns Ancient And Truly Prehistoric". I often use "You laid aside your majesty" as an example of a relatively modern song that carries a good message:

You laid aside Your majesty, gave up everything for me.
Suffered at the hands of those You had created.
You took away my guilt and shame,
When You died and rose again.
Now today You reign,
In heaven and earth exalted.

I really want to worship You my Lord,
You have won my heart and I am Yours.
Forever and ever, I will love You.
You are the only one who died for me,
Gave Your life to set me free.
So I lift my voice to You in adoration