Christians in the modern world

[MoreCoffee]

Today, the human race is involved in a new stage of history. Profound and rapid changes are spreading by degrees around the whole world. Triggered by the intelligence and creative energies of man, these changes recoil upon him, upon his decisions and desires, both individual and collective, and upon his manner of thinking and acting with respect to things and to people. Hence we can already speak of a true cultural and social transformation, one which has repercussions on man's religious life as well.

As happens in any crisis of growth, this transformation has brought serious difficulties in its wake. Thus while man extends his power in every direction, he does not always succeed in subjecting it to his own welfare. Striving to probe more profoundly into the deeper recesses of his own mind, he frequently appears more unsure of himself. Gradually and more precisely he lays bare the laws of society, only to be paralyzed by uncertainty about the direction to give it.

Never has the human race enjoyed such an abundance of wealth, resources and economic power, and yet a huge proportion of the worlds citizens are still tormented by hunger and poverty, while countless numbers suffer from total illiteracy. Never before has man had so keen an understanding of freedom, yet at the same time new forms of social and psychological slavery make their appearance. Although the world of today has a very vivid awareness of its unity and of how one man depends on another in needful solidarity, it is most grievously torn into opposing camps by conflicting forces. For political, social, economic, racial and ideological disputes still continue bitterly, and with them the peril of a war which would reduce everything to ashes.

Are you afraid of wars, nuclear and conventional, destroying our world?

 

[faramir.pete]

Why would we fear something which our God has told us is not the end?

You are right there is great knowledge and progress in our modern world but there is also great inequality and injustice too. In my opinion the great threat to Christians in our modern world is not nuclear holocaust, but complacency.

Many of us tend to live in the world and enjoy the benefits and comforts and never feel concerned for the millions of disadvantaged people in our own countries - let alone the billions of hungry that live in other places. Yet every Sunday they troop off to another performance at our churches and have their ears tickled by a pastor who relies on them to pay for his comfortable living so he always sticks to the 'programme' and does not teach them what they need to hear. And then to make the complacency worse when someone does step up and try to change our comfortable Christian communities we challenge them with theology and arguments about what the bible says! And if we fail to convince him we force him out of our community to go and set up a new version of comfort driven community. And all the while in the same town we have, as you say slaves, drug pushers, and lost people who need to really meet a Christian who will love them as Christ loved us.

No I do not fear nuclear holocaust, I fear for the Christian church that is paying lip service to the role Christ has given us!


Pete from Peterborough UK

 

[MoreCoffee]

Why would we fear something which our God has told us is not the end?

You are right there is great knowledge and progress in our modern world but there is also great inequality and injustice too. In my opinion the great threat to Christians in our modern world is not nuclear holocaust, but complacency.

Many of us tend to live in the world and enjoy the benefits and comforts and never feel concerned for the millions of disadvantaged people in our own countries - let alone the billions of hungry that live in other places. Yet every Sunday they troop off to another performance at our churches and have their ears tickled by a pastor who relies on them to pay for his comfortable living so he always sticks to the 'programme' and does not teach them what they need to hear. And then to make the complacency worse when someone does step up and try to change our comfortable Christian communities we challenge them with theology and arguments about what the bible says! And if we fail to convince him we force him out of our community to go and set up a new version of comfort driven community. And all the while in the same town we have, as you say slaves, drug pushers, and lost people who need to really meet a Christian who will love them as Christ loved us.

No I do not fear nuclear holocaust, I fear for the Christian church that is paying lip service to the role Christ has given us!


Pete from Peterborough UK

Some say that the world will end in fire. Saint Peter's second letter says so. Perhaps it is pointing to the time when the sun will nova and expand until it finally consumes Earth. Perhaps it is about world wide nuclear war or other forms of war that will burn the world. It could be a fiery judgement from God that is in saint Peter's text. Have you seen it?

2Peter 3: 1 Dearly beloved, this is the second letter I write to you. In both of them, I have intended to remind you of sound doctrine. 2 Do not forget the words of the holy prophets, and the teaching of our Lord and Savior, as you heard it, through his apostles.

3 Remember, first of all, that, in the last days, scoffers will appear, their mockery serving their evil desires. 4 And they will say,

“What has become of his promised coming? Since our fathers in faith died, everything still goes on, as it was from the beginning of the world.”​

5 Indeed, they deliberately ignore, that, in the beginning, the heavens existed first, and earth appeared from the water, taking its form by the word of God. 6 By the same word of God, this world perished in the Flood. 7 Likewise, the word of God maintains the present heavens and earth, until their destruction, by fire; they are kept for the day of judgement, when the godless will be destroyed. 8 Do not forget, beloved, that with the Lord, one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like one day. 9 The Lord does not delay in fulfilling his promise, though some speak of delay; rather, he gives you time, because he does not want anyone to perish, but that all may come to conversion. 10 The Day of the Lord is to come like a thief. Then, the heavens will dissolve with a great noise; the elements will melt away by fire, and the earth, with all that is on it, will be burned up.

11 Since all things are to vanish, how holy and religious your way of life must be, 12 as you wait for the day of God, and long for its coming, when the heavens will dissolve in fire, and the elements melt away in the heat. 13 We wait for a new heaven and a new earth, in which justice reigns, according to God’s promise.

14 Therefore, beloved, as you wait in expectation of this, strive, that God may find you rooted in peace, without blemish or fault.

15 And consider, that God’s patience is for our salvation, as our beloved brother, Paul, wrote to you, with the wisdom given him. 16 He speaks of these things in all his letters. There are, however, some points in them that are difficult to understand, which people, who are ignorant, and immature in their faith, twist, as they do with the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.​

 

[faramir.pete]

Yes I have also heard those texts explained that way.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that Our Lord said the time of the end is not known to anyone except God, so my opinion is we are better off focusing on things we can change than worrying about things that may happen, and if they do that we have no control over the outcome.


Pete from Peterborough UK

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes I have also heard those texts explained that way.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that Our Lord said the time of the end is not known to anyone except God, so my opinion is we are better off focusing on things we can change than worrying about things that may happen, and if they do that we have no control over the outcome.


Pete from Peterborough UK

Yes, I agree, we are far wiser and much better off leaving prophetic speculation to hobbyists and to people with nothing better to do. I am not suggesting that anybody engage in speculating on the "day and the hour" stuff. Nor year and month stuff. Not anything to do with timing. The eventual nova of the sun is likely billions of years in the future and a war is always unpredictable until it happens. But the passage does speak of an end in fire as counter point to the end in water of the great flood in Genesis. I do not know if any of these passage can be taken at face value as simple prose descriptions of events yet to come. I have doubts about nearly every form of prophetic interpretation that makes guesses about what this symbol and that symbol means in our time (or in very near future times). Nevertheless we live in troubled times and thoughts of war are present and the weapons available now are fearful indeed. Christian in the modern world face some fearful things. God willing we shall not see a war that can bring an end like the one saint Peter mentions.

 

[MennoSota]

Today, the human race is involved in a new stage of history. Profound and rapid changes are spreading by degrees around the whole world. Triggered by the intelligence and creative energies of man, these changes recoil upon him, upon his decisions and desires, both individual and collective, and upon his manner of thinking and acting with respect to things and to people. Hence we can already speak of a true cultural and social transformation, one which has repercussions on man's religious life as well.

As happens in any crisis of growth, this transformation has brought serious difficulties in its wake. Thus while man extends his power in every direction, he does not always succeed in subjecting it to his own welfare. Striving to probe more profoundly into the deeper recesses of his own mind, he frequently appears more unsure of himself. Gradually and more precisely he lays bare the laws of society, only to be paralyzed by uncertainty about the direction to give it.

Never has the human race enjoyed such an abundance of wealth, resources and economic power, and yet a huge proportion of the worlds citizens are still tormented by hunger and poverty, while countless numbers suffer from total illiteracy. Never before has man had so keen an understanding of freedom, yet at the same time new forms of social and psychological slavery make their appearance. Although the world of today has a very vivid awareness of its unity and of how one man depends on another in needful solidarity, it is most grievously torn into opposing camps by conflicting forces. For political, social, economic, racial and ideological disputes still continue bitterly, and with them the peril of a war which would reduce everything to ashes.

Are you afraid of wars, nuclear and conventional, destroying our world?

Your loooong introduction to the question put aside...the answer is: No

 

[MennoSota]

Yes, I agree, we are far wiser and much better off leaving prophetic speculation to hobbyists and to people with nothing better to do. I am not suggesting that anybody engage in speculating on the "day and the hour" stuff. Nor year and month stuff. Not anything to do with timing. The eventual nova of the sun is likely billions of years in the future and a war is always unpredictable until it happens. But the passage does speak of an end in fire as counter point to the end in water of the great flood in Genesis. I do not know if any of these passage can be taken at face value as simple prose descriptions of events yet to come. I have doubts about nearly every form of prophetic interpretation that makes guesses about what this symbol and that symbol means in our time (or in very near future times). Nevertheless we live in troubled times and thoughts of war are present and the weapons available now are fearful indeed. Christian in the modern world face some fearful things. God willing we shall not see a war that can bring an end like the one saint Peter mentions.

God tells us we are exiles and ambassadors. We may apply God's instructions to Israel as they were in exile.
Jeremiah 29:4-9
[4]This is what the lord of Heaven’s Armies, the God of Israel, says to all the captives he has exiled to Babylon from Jerusalem:
[5]“Build homes, and plan to stay. Plant gardens, and eat the food they produce.
[6]Marry and have children. Then find spouses for them so that you may have many grandchildren. Multiply! Do not dwindle away!
[7]And work for the peace and prosperity of the city where I sent you into exile. Pray to the lord for it, for its welfare will determine your welfare.”
[8]This is what the lord of Heaven’s Armies, the God of Israel, says: “Do not let your prophets and fortune-tellers who are with you in the land of Babylon trick you. Do not listen to their dreams,
[9]because they are telling you lies in my name. I have not sent them,” says the lord.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Your loooong introduction to the question put aside...the answer is: No

Don't you go getting eyestrain reading more than one sentence.

 

[NewCreation435]

It would be a waste of my time and energy to worry about things that I cannot control. So, I don't really think about whether or not someone could start a war whether conventional or otherwise. Jesus even told us that each day has enough trouble of its own.

Matthew 6:33-34
33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

 

[MennoSota]

Don't you go getting eyestrain reading more than one sentence.

I thought I was reading a manifesto....

 

[Albion]

Are you afraid of wars, nuclear and conventional, destroying our world?

I'm more afraid of governments becoming totalitarian. We thought that 1984 was behind us; it appears not to be.

 

[psalms 91]

Scripture says the world will not end till after the 1000 year reign of Christ so no I am not worried about thaty and scripture tells us that it will get worse so no surprises there.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I thought I was reading a manifesto....

In a way you were

Was in interesting?

 

[Arsenios]

Scripture says the world will not end till after the 1000 year reign of Christ so no I am not worried about thaty and scripture tells us that it will get worse so no surprises there.

That reign ended with the Fall of Constantinople to the Turks after the Christian Roman Empire under Emperor Constantine was established in Constantinople a thousand years before-time... It ended with the Emperor Constantine the XI, who was executed after its fall... That was the thousand year reign that restrained Satan's persecution of Christ within its far-flung borders...

We are currently under the resurgence of Satan's rule, as is obvious to all...

Arsenios

 

[psalms 91]

That reign ended with the Fall of Constantinople to the Turks after the Christian Roman Empire under Emperor Constantine was established in Constantinople a thousand years before-time... It ended with the Emperor Constantine the XI, who was executed after its fall... That was the thousand year reign that restrained Satan's persecution of Christ within its far-flung borders...

We are currently under the resurgence of Satan's rule, as is obvious to all...

Arsenios

We will have to agree to disagree my friend

 

[MoreCoffee]

That reign ended with the Fall of Constantinople to the Turks after the Christian Roman Empire under Emperor Constantine was established in Constantinople a thousand years before-time... It ended with the Emperor Constantine the XI, who was executed after its fall... That was the thousand year reign that restrained Satan's persecution of Christ within its far-flung borders...

We are currently under the resurgence of Satan's rule, as is obvious to all...

Arsenios

I have heard is said and read it in books too that Constantinople has seven hills within the ancient walls and that it is the city mentioned in revelation .... some see it as having fallen with the angelic cry "Babylon the great has fallen". I mention this only because it seems like it might be interesting to see how it is seen by others. I do not say I favour this approach to the Apocalypse of saint John the theologian.

 

[MennoSota]

That reign ended with the Fall of Constantinople to the Turks after the Christian Roman Empire under Emperor Constantine was established in Constantinople a thousand years before-time... It ended with the Emperor Constantine the XI, who was executed after its fall... That was the thousand year reign that restrained Satan's persecution of Christ within its far-flung borders...

We are currently under the resurgence of Satan's rule, as is obvious to all...

Arsenios

That's certainly a theory you obviously believe.
Truth is God won the war at the cross. This is just mop up time where rebels make a last ditch effort to survive before God d@mns them to hell.
God's ambassadors may be killed in the process, but our Father and King will vindicate any wrong done against us.

 

[MennoSota]

I have heard is said and read it in books too that Constantinople has seven hills within the ancient walls and that it is the city mentioned in revelation .... some see it as having fallen with the angelic cry "Babylon the great has fallen". I mention this only because it seems like it might be interesting to see how it is seen by others. I do not say I favour this approach to the Apocalypse of saint John the theologian.

Rome has seven hills...

 

[Andrew]

Rome has seven hills...

I believe it is referring to the old empire yes.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

 

[MennoSota]

I believe it is referring to the old empire yes.

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

I'm just stating that Rome was built on seven hills. It's geography.