"What if Christianity is Wrong?"

[Josiah]

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Some years ago, an associate - knowing I'm a Christian - asked me, "What if it turns out it's all wrong? What if you die and.... nothing?"

It's a valid question. And yes, while I'm convinced otherwise, it is possible.

I shared that if that's the case, then I rejoice (with all my heart) that I'm a Christian - because it blesses me richly. And I think my life would be deprived of MUCH if I did not have faith...



My Christian faith blesses me in SO many ways, including.....


Presence. "Lo, I am with you always." "He is the Immanuel" (that means "God with you"). I live and breathe in the constant awareness of His presence, and not just in some locational sense but here - for me. Think of that "Footprints" poem. The 23rd Psalm. It's comforting and empowering.


Loved. The concept of LOVE (agape) is the starting point, the hub, the centerpiece of the entire Christian religion. Everything in the Christian religion all comes back to this point: God loves us. The unconditional, no-matter-what, all-the-time LOVE. Even when I can't stand me, God loves me. I feel that always. It is the one thing in life I KNOW. It's extremely affirming and renewing and life-giving. John 3:16, 1 John 4:8, 1 John 4:10, Galatians 4:5, 1 John 5:1 etc., etc., etc., etc. It's comforting and empowering.


Family/Relationship. Christianity is all about our RELATIONSHIP with God, and how that impacts our relationships with others and with ourselves. God calls Himself "Our Father." He calls us "My son, My daughter." It's a living, loving, abiding REAL relationship with the living, loving, abiding REAL God. When I pray, I at times call God "Abba" (Galatians 4:5, Romans 8:15) - it means "Daddy." And the more I know that (relational "know" not didactic "know"), the more it seems to impact how I relate to myself and to others. Forgiveness is easier (and perhaps eventually automatic?) when we know we are forgiven, acceptance is easier (and perhaps eventually automatic?) when we know we are accepted. When we HAVE love, we can GIVE love... It also causes me to be more accepting and embracing of others, and to not just "tolerate" them but embrace them as FAMILY and as people whom God so richly loves.


Peace. This is hard to put into words. There is, of course, that objective peace - the end to the war - that Jesus secured for us on the Cross. Romans 5:1-11. But it isn't just objective and historic, it's also subjective and present. "The peace that passes all understanding," the Bible says somewhere. I've known this for a long time, but it's grown some deep roots. When I was a little boy, I had surgery (no need to go into that). I was just old enough to understand that I could die - and what that meant. I remember - for the first and probably only time in my life - I considered that in very real terms. And I remember feeling at peace with that. It didn't have too much to do with Heaven, really, it had a lot to do with relying on His heart and will, in knowing my small hand was in His big hand - and that's all that mattered. I understand that more today. I could give separate things about JOY and COMFORT but they are really just different ways of looking at the same thing. "Joy is peace dancing, peace is joy at rest."


Transformation. BEING loved causes me to be more loving.... BEING accepted causes me to be more accepting. BEING forgiven causes me to be more forgiving. BEING served makes me more serving. While I do not AT ALL deny that Buddhists or Atheists can be at least as moral and good, I think Christians have an advantage even if not always realized as much as it should be. But for me, I conclude that much of the "good" in me (and I ain't saying that's a lot) is a result of faith in Christ.




For ME, faith isn't about trying to find a lost god, it's about God finding ME, and loving me more than I'll ever be able to comprehend, holding my hand, blessing me. For ME, faith isn't about my somehow satisfying God by jumping through a bunch of hoops, it's about what HE did for me. For ME. Try reading the Passion Story in the Bible and put your own name in there whenever the crowd or soldiers or whoever is mentioned. Yeah. He did it for ME. And for YOU. We are the ones in the crowd. We are the ones with the hammer. It's about what HE did for ME.


For ME, faith isn't so much about obedience to a demanding God, it's about the opportunities He gives me to be a blessing; "blessed to be a blessing" as Roman Catholics are so fond of saying. The times I can touch someone with just a TINY, TINY bit of what He blessed me with. It's how we love Him back (John 13:34). It's how we share His love with others. And it ends up blessing us more than the other, which is the odd thing about God's economics. You can't out-love Him.


I do not deny that Christianity has been abused at times in the name of hate... even war. I do not deny that evil people have (successfully at times) abused Christianity to forward their own evil agenda. There are the "Jim Jones" types; there are cases when some Christians do or say things that truly sadden and embarrass me. There are "chapters" (such as the Inquasition and Crusades) that are tragic. CHRISTIANS are sinners..... but IMO this doesn't mean that Christianity is. And I think more good has resulted.




A blessed Easter season to all....



- Josiah




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[faramir.pete]

It is an odd sort of question really, after all if there turns out to be 'nothing' after death as your questioner posited then there would be nobody to know that there was nothing and the question is moot.

It does rather beg the response to his question though: If there is nothing then I have lost nothing, but if there is a God and Jesus was right in his teaching and Christianity is not wrong, then where will your unbelieving friend be?


Pete from Peterborough UK

 

[MennoSota]

It is an odd sort of question really, after all if there turns out to be 'nothing' after death as your questioner posited then there would be nobody to know that there was nothing and the question is moot.

It does rather beg the response to his question though: If there is nothing then I have lost nothing, but if there is a God and Jesus was right in his teaching and Christianity is not wrong, then where will your unbelieving friend be?


Pete from Peterborough UK

Pascal's Wager
"And if our hope in Christ is only for this life, we are more to be pitied than anyone in the world. But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead. He is the first of a great harvest of all who have died." ~ 1 Corinthians 15:19-20

 

[tango]

The trouble with interpreting the question in the light of Pascal's Wager is that it misses some of the other possibilities.

If the atheists are right and when we die we become worm food and that's the end of it, we have lost nothing in trying to spread the love of Christ to others even if it should transpire the love of Christ is nothing more than an illusion.

If some other faiths is right and following the teaching of Jesus Christ is not acceptable to what turns out to be the true god then we have wasted our lives and still spend eternity in whatever state of punishment that god imposes upon us. Not only that but we have potentially guided unknown numbers of other innocent souls to their dooms in punishment.

If it were as simple as the either-or scenario presented by Pascal's Wager it would make little sense to be an atheist. Adding other possibilities, particularly those in which Christians face the wrath of a deity, renders the analogy not only useless but potentially harmful. Specifically, if one is following a religion just for the sake of an insurance policy, it makes sense to focus more and more on good deeds as a means to salvation, simply because it covers the most bases. We would end up doing as little as possible that involved taking a stance on anything, to avoid offending any one of the deities described by the varying world religions. We certainly couldn't keep all the gods happy because Jesus said he was the only way to God and it's hard to see how we could claim to profess faith in Jesus while also spending endless time trying to make sure we had adequately appeased Allah, Vishnu, Ganesh, Krishna etc.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

I like simple questions, and that's how I see this one. If Christianity is wrong, then at death we merely cease to "exist". Our "awareness" ends and (I assume) we would enter a state opposite to that - no awareness because all bio-chemical processes within our bodies necessary to sustain life have ceased.

So, if Christians are wrong, that's fine, because we've wagered that there is a God, and there isn't. We just decompose.
But if we're right...

 

[Josiah]

But if we're right...

...and meanwhile.... I have peace, comfort, courage, hope, love and...

 

[MennoSota]

The trouble with interpreting the question in the light of Pascal's Wager is that it misses some of the other possibilities.

If the atheists are right and when we die we become worm food and that's the end of it, we have lost nothing in trying to spread the love of Christ to others even if it should transpire the love of Christ is nothing more than an illusion.

If some other faiths is right and following the teaching of Jesus Christ is not acceptable to what turns out to be the true god then we have wasted our lives and still spend eternity in whatever state of punishment that god imposes upon us. Not only that but we have potentially guided unknown numbers of other innocent souls to their dooms in punishment.

If it were as simple as the either-or scenario presented by Pascal's Wager it would make little sense to be an atheist. Adding other possibilities, particularly those in which Christians face the wrath of a deity, renders the analogy not only useless but potentially harmful. Specifically, if one is following a religion just for the sake of an insurance policy, it makes sense to focus more and more on good deeds as a means to salvation, simply because it covers the most bases. We would end up doing as little as possible that involved taking a stance on anything, to avoid offending any one of the deities described by the varying world religions. We certainly couldn't keep all the gods happy because Jesus said he was the only way to God and it's hard to see how we could claim to profess faith in Jesus while also spending endless time trying to make sure we had adequately appeased Allah, Vishnu, Ganesh, Krishna etc.

When I brought up Pascal's Wager it was in relation to faramir.pete's thought. There are serious theological flaws in Pascal's wager, which relate to God's sovereign choice of adoption. Pascal views the process as though God were a passive agent observing the events as a silent spectator. That is hardly the case.

 

[tango]

I like simple questions, and that's how I see this one. If Christianity is wrong, then at death we merely cease to "exist". Our "awareness" ends and (I assume) we would enter a state opposite to that - no awareness because all bio-chemical processes within our bodies necessary to sustain life have ceased.

So, if Christians are wrong, that's fine, because we've wagered that there is a God, and there isn't. We just decompose.
But if we're right...

Except it's not as simple as that. If Christianity is wrong and there is no god at all then at death we simply decompose. But what if, say, the Muslims are right and we've spent our time worshiping a man who was nothing more than a prophet? What if the Hindus are right and we wasted time praying to this Jesus guy who was never anything special and end up punished by Ganesh for our insolence?

 

[tango]

When I brought up Pascal's Wager it was in relation to faramir.pete's thought. There are serious theological flaws in Pascal's wager, which relate to God's sovereign choice of adoption. Pascal views the process as though God were a passive agent observing the events as a silent spectator. That is hardly the case.

Regardless of how Pascal's Wager sees God interacting (or not) with us I think the bigger issue is that it isn't a simple matter of "believe in god, or don't believe in god" - there are so many faiths out there claiming theirs is the true god and many of them directly contradict the claims of others. If you pick the wrong one, follow a false god and end up angering the true god, you've got bigger problems than merely ceasing to exist - potentially you face the very problems you were hoping to avoid in the first place.

Maybe Pascal's Wager should be renamed Pascal's Irony

 

[MennoSota]

Regardless of how Pascal's Wager sees God interacting (or not) with us I think the bigger issue is that it isn't a simple matter of "believe in god, or don't believe in god" - there are so many faiths out there claiming theirs is the true god and many of them directly contradict the claims of others. If you pick the wrong one, follow a false god and end up angering the true god, you've got bigger problems than merely ceasing to exist - potentially you face the very problems you were hoping to avoid in the first place.

Maybe Pascal's Wager should be renamed Pascal's Irony

The issue is: All humans will pick the wrong god. (see Romans 3)

 

[atpollard]

I don’t know how common or uncommon the position is, but I agree with Josiah. Even if I knew with certainty that the OT view that life simply ends at the grave were true, I would still choose to serve God by following the teaching of Jesus Christ. My life as a Christian has been FAR better than my life as an atheist ever was ... any eternal rewards are strictly icing on the cake.

(As an aside, I tried most of the other ‘religions’ before transitioning from agnostic to full blown nihilist. God called me, I did not seek him.)

 

[psalms 91]

Absolutely, God is real, alive, and worthy of our worship and praise. We serve the one true living God and any who reject that so be it but it doesnt change the truth

 

[MennoSota]

I don’t know how common or uncommon the position is, but I agree with Josiah. Even if I knew with certainty that the OT view that life simply ends at the grave were true, I would still choose to serve God by following the teaching of Jesus Christ. My life as a Christian has been FAR better than my life as an atheist ever was ... any eternal rewards are strictly icing on the cake.

(As an aside, I tried most of the other ‘religions’ before transitioning from agnostic to full blown nihilist. God called me, I did not seek him.)

Your aside is the most important truth.
As to projecting how I would live my life without hope beyond this one...I can say that I would be a full blown hedonist. I would live each day to fill up my own pleasure. "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die!"
I would be a rational hedonist. No doubt in my mind.
Thank God for His amazing grace!!!

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

What if Christianity is wrong? That's a question that believers should expect to have flung at them several times by random strangers who don't share their faith. I can only cite 1 Corinthians 15:12- 28:

12 Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. 15 We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified about God that he raised Christ, whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+15&version=ESV.

In short, Christianity is not wrong because it can't be wrong. The promises made to believers are kept not only in the life to come, but in this present life as well. Who doesn't have a testimony of God's grace to share? Yes, there really is a Man born of a Virgin physically by the power of the Holy Spirit. He's our Lord and Savior and He is known as Jesus Christ. Yes, the Scriptures remain eternally true. Yes, the Holy Spirit is still active in the world today and through Word and Sacraments, our faith is generated and increased. Not only have we hope for promises to be fulfilled in the future, but we have promises made in Scripture that we can testify have been kept in our own lives.

 

[Arsenios]

I agree with other Christians -
There IS NO IF...

Arsenios

 

[psalms 91]

Uf someone has to ask this question then they are not close to Gopd and need to draw closer to Him for if they were close this would not even be a qyestion

 

[Pedrito]

The perspective expressed by atpollard in Post #11 resembles the dedication of the Sadducees of Jesus’ day. It is an admirable one.

Even if I knew with certainty that the OT view that life simply ends at the grave were true, I would still choose to serve God by following the teaching of Jesus Christ.

The Sadducees of course did not have the teachings of Jesus. They recognised only the Torah, the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures, and based their dedication to God on that. They rejected all else, considering the rest of the holy writings to be later additions. They rejected the books that clearly spoke of a future resurrection from death. atpollard appears to have overlooked those statements of Scripture as well, in the otherwise commendable perspective he tendered.

But the Sadducees had overlooked one important thing. The book of Job is demonstrably the oldest writing in the Bible. It predates the Torah. So it was not a later addition to the Holy Scriptures as such. God had revealed His planned mechanism of rescue from death even before He formed the nation of Israel and established His special covenant with it.

Rescue from death by resurrection is the ancient and consistent revelation from God throughout the Inspired Hebrew Scriptures. We also find it proclaimed consistently and compatibly throughout the Inspired Greek Scriptures (our New Testament).

I deem it unfortunate that the joyous hope of future restoration to life, was not experienced by the Sad-you-sees.

 

[Albion]

Like your new writing style/format. :thumbsup:

 

[Andrew]

Like your new writing style/format.

Maybe it's not Pedrito at all but an imposter

Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

 

[hedrick]

In my opinion Christianity is the best way to live. Currently enlightened agnostics share many of the same ideals, but I doubt that would continue for long without Christianity to sustain it.

I see a lot of people who seem to think that the only purpose of Christianity is to save us from hell. None of the rest really matters. That kind of Christianity would be pointless unless the threat of hell is real, even if God is real and Christ is the Word made flesh.