Does the Qu'ran tell the same truth found in the Christian Bible?

[Andrew]

I expounded on the singular proponent that I do not agree with brother.

If such makes me not a trinitarian then that's fine with me. GOD is my judge.

I do not find that the firstborn is co-eternal with Creator, being created and all.

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but OT and NT verses continually state that the son the first born of all creation was there since the very beginning. It's in there you just have to find them, I personally believe that the physical embodiment of the invisible God is Jesus Christ since spirit has no legs or arms thus the Holy Spirit is God is Jesus Christ, trinity absolutely but also one, which is why it makes no difference if one is Trinitarian or Unitarian, I agree with both views except that Unitarians claim to know the mystery of the Godhead as Trinitarians go in circles but at least see that the Godhead is a complete mystery. Jesus is our mediator between us and God and the Holy Spirit moves through all the Godhead and through us a select few.

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[popsthebuilder]

but OT and NT verses continually state that the son the first born of all creation was there since the very beginning. It's in there you just have to find them, I personally believe that the physical embodiment of the invisible God is Jesus Christ since spirit has no legs or arms thus the Holy Spirit is God is Jesus Christ, trinity absolutely but also one, which is why it makes no difference if one is Trinitarian or Unitarian, I agree with both views except that Unitarians claim to know the mystery of the Godhead as Trinitarians go in circles but at least see that the Godhead is a complete mystery. Jesus is our mediator between us and God and the Holy Spirit moves through all the Godhead and through us a select few.

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Show me where beggotten is co-eternal as far as origin is concerned.

Mind you; the Word/ Christ/ Spirit of GOD is not created, and that is not my claim or belief. The material physical manifestation is not co-eternal in itself; the Holy Spirit that fills this Temple of GOD surely is; and further is indeed GOD, yet even so; this being the fullness of GOD as man or creation can know it seems, I would still not limit GOD to such. So I guess there is more than one distinction I make from traditional trinitarianism that was formulated and stamped into approval by the Nicene Creed by a majority vote basically.

I will gladly speak on this subject, but may come off as exceedingly short. It is not my intent. I have discussed this topic many times. There are divisions among trinitarians about the nature of the trinity doctrine. I have witnessed this personally. It is quitely seept under the rug generally.....just trying to explain why I may be a little to the point.

Thank you for your tone though....really.....I must remember not to judge you or your motives against those of others.


There is a mystery about it. It has been ignored for a long time it seems. I personally don't understand how people can claim to know that the second coming is Christ living in your heart guiding your life if you actually listen and follow, yet then go about in heedless knowing sin with a seared conscience; not even being affected with sorrow causing repentance. So very many seem to proclaim a cross....and a death of GOD.....and freedom from consequences from knowing wrong and evil in the sight of THE all seeing and all pervading. There seems to be some great disconnect for very many.....I'm sorry....im ranting.

Thank you for your seeming sincerity. Please overlook my seeming lacking.

peace; I look forward to your response.


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[Albion]

No offense intended, but, technically speaking, neither of you is an orthodox, Trinitarian Christian. We love you just the same.

 

[popsthebuilder]

No offense intended, but, technically speaking, neither of you is an orthodox, Trinitarian Christian. We love you just the same.

Yeah....I know I am not an orthodox Christian.....it is painfully obvious at times.

peace

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[Andrew]

Show me where beggotten is co-eternal as far as origin is concerned.

Mind you; the Word/ Christ/ Spirit of GOD is not created, and that is not my claim or belief. The material physical manifestation is not co-eternal in itself; the Holy Spirit that fills this Temple of GOD surely is; and further is indeed GOD, yet even so; this being the fullness of GOD as man or creation can know it seems, I would still not limit GOD to such. So I guess there is more than one distinction I make from traditional trinitarianism that was formulated and stamped into approval by the Nicene Creed by a majority vote basically.

I will gladly speak on this subject, but may come off as exceedingly short. It is not my intent. I have discussed this topic many times. There are divisions among trinitarians about the nature of the trinity doctrine. I have witnessed this personally. It is quitely seept under the rug generally.....just trying to explain why I may be a little to the point.

Thank you for your tone though....really.....I must remember not to judge you or your motives against those of others.


There is a mystery about it. It has been ignored for a long time it seems. I personally don't understand how people can claim to know that the second coming is Christ living in your heart guiding your life if you actually listen and follow, yet then go about in heedless knowing sin with a seared conscience; not even being affected with sorrow causing repentance. So very many seem to proclaim a cross....and a death of GOD.....and freedom from consequences from knowing wrong and evil in the sight of THE all seeing and all pervading. There seems to be some great disconnect for very many.....I'm sorry....im ranting.

Thank you for your seeming sincerity. Please overlook my seeming lacking.

peace; I look forward to your response.


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I get that, the whole Jesus died for our sins so as we are sinners really much doesnt change that fact but we wont to hell... BUT to know Gods laws should set in conviction to were you at least notice you bads and correct them, becoming less of a sinner and more as a holy person. The majority may have a wrong but because we Know we must also show mercy love and grace and know that God will work in them to change major sins of the person. Such as let the thief steal no more but rather let him work for his meat, you dont work you dont eat, this is one example that happened to me, i was a thief to the bone but God convicted me one day and it changed my life... Ever since his grace has charged me now and then of other sins and skeletons i hid that are now gone from my life...for good Thank God. This is how I believe it should work so there I cannot judge or I AM judged

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[Albion]

Yeah....I know I am not an orthodox Christian.....it is painfully obvious at times.

Yes, I know that you even stated it in your post above.

FWIW, though, I notice that both you and our friend DHoffmann tend to speak at times as though the respective objections each of you has to some part or other of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed is some kind of a misunderstanding or a problem with the wording. However, both of your objections were met head-on by the early church and rejected on Scriptural grounds. I'm not trying to lecture you, I hope you know, but I'm just sayin'.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Yes, I know that you even stated it in your post above.

FWIW, though, I notice that both you and our friend DHoffmann tend to speak at times as though the respective objections each of you has to some part or other of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed is some kind of a misunderstanding or a problem with the wording. However, both of your objections were met head-on by the early church and rejected on Scriptural grounds. I'm not trying to lecture you, I hope you know, but I'm just sayin'.

Are you saying that you can provide scripture showing that the physical manifestation of GOD is literally wholly co-eternal with the Spirit of GOD, or GOD almighty. Or are you saying I should blindly take the word of others for it when it has to do with the eternal wellbeing or destruction of the souls of my children? Those others having shown themselves to have been wholly bereft of the truth based on their works?

Why do you destroy all evidence of an opinion that you actually believe is wholly inferior to yours? Would you not keep it to show what wrong looks like?



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[Albion]

Sorry, but I have no idea what that was supposed to be all about.

I merely commented that while both you and DH acknowledge that you are not Trinitarians, I have noticed that when you do so it is done with some comment to the effect that your views are your own, that they are not as serious as might be thought by Trinitarians, that they are just a problem of which words to use--or something like that. However, both your particular objection and his were debated in the early church and thoroughly assessed. They are not just slight differences or personal musings or another way of saying the same thing, if that was the idea.

That said, I mentioned it because it thought it was an interesting footnote, not because I want to start debating the nature of God once again.








.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Sorry, but I have no idea what that was supposed to be all about.

I merely commented that while both you and DH acknowledge that you are not Trinitarians, I have noticed that when you do so it is done with some comment to the effect that your views are your own, that they are not as serious as might be though by Trinitarians, that they are just a problem of what words to use--or something like that. However, both your objection an his were hotly debated in the early church and thoroughly assessed. They are not just your own musings or way of looking at things, if that was the idea.

That said, I mentioned it because it thought it was an interesting footnote, not because I want to start debating the nature of God once again.

Sorry....I agree these very topics have been gone over for a very long time.

peace

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[MennoSota]

Philippians 2:5-8
[5]You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
[6]Though he was God, *** he did not think of equality with God *** as something to cling to.
[7]Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; *** he took the humble position of a slave *** and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, ***
[8]he humbled himself in obedience to God *** and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
John 8
[58]Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, i am!”

 

[Andrew]

Sorry, but I have no idea what that was supposed to be all about.

I merely commented that while both you and DH acknowledge that you are not Trinitarians, I have noticed that when you do so it is done with some comment to the effect that your views are your own, that they are not as serious as might be thought by Trinitarians, that they are just a problem of which words to use--or something like that. However, both your particular objection and his were debated in the early church and thoroughly assessed. They are not just slight differences or personal musings or another way of saying the same thing, if that was the idea.

That said, I mentioned it because it thought it was an interesting footnote, not because I want to start debating the nature of God once again.








.

How am I not Trinitarian?
I agree strongly with scripture and I find Trinity very well explained in it, one even as Mennesota posted is a great example. One of the biggest reason I am no longer Unitarian is because they call themselves that to stand out more when truly they are Trinitarian but they just word it slightly different I guess because they are just so anti-Catholic.... I was just trying to figure pops view on it to make a case on how the Holy Spirit and The Son are absent in the Quran

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[Pedrito]

popsthebuilder said in Post #94:

I could actually show you every bit of that from the quran; except Christ didn't die, Jesus did. Christ is anointed with the Spirit of GOD; which cannot be killed.

In Post #100 he offered:

Jesus surely did die by the hands of men, but that in no way means the Christ died literally. As if any man can extinguish the light and flame of GOD.

==============================================================================================

Well, it would seem that God's Holy Revelation indicates something different.

Romans 5:6: For we yet being without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans 5:8: But God commends His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us
Romans 6:9: knowing that when Christ was raised from [the] dead, He dies no more; death no longer has dominion over Him.
Romans 8:11: But if the Spirit of the [One] who raised up Jesus from [the] dead dwells in you, the [One] who raised up Christ from [the] dead shall also make your mortal bodies alive by His Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:34: Who [is] he condemning? [It is] Christ who has died, but rather also [who is] raised, who is also at [the] right [hand] of God, who also intercedes for us.
Romans 14:9: For this Christ both died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord both of [the] dead and living.
Romans 14:15: But if your brother is grieved with [your] food, you no longer walk according to love. Do not with your food destroy him for whom Christ died.
1 Corinthians 8:11: And on your knowledge the weak brother will fall, he for whom Christ died.
1 Corinthians 15:3: For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures,

I suspect that popsthebuilder's thoughts, although a logical extension of identifiable post-Nicene doctrinal development, are shown by the above Scriptures to be inappropriate.

==============================================================================================

And considering (Post #176) “Why would GOD almighty send ITSELF to be a sacrifice and blood payment to ITSELF for the sin of man that HE knowingly instilled in them as potential from creation? How does this said blood payment and sacrificial lamb save one's soul? Please explain it to me. Then explain how if such is the case, then why does scripture say HE is pleased with no blood sacrifice.”, thoughts which I do not remember ever expressing in that way, I need to ask something.

Could it be that the actual basis upon which popsthebuilder's thoughts were built, could do with some further investigation by him?

 

[popsthebuilder]

popsthebuilder said in Post #94:


In Post #100 he offered:


==============================================================================================

Well, it would seem that God's Holy Revelation indicates something different.

Romans 5:6: For we yet being without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans 5:8: But God commends His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us
Romans 6:9: knowing that when Christ was raised from [the] dead, He dies no more; death no longer has dominion over Him.
Romans 8:11: But if the Spirit of the [One] who raised up Jesus from [the] dead dwells in you, the [One] who raised up Christ from [the] dead shall also make your mortal bodies alive by His Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:34: Who [is] he condemning? [It is] Christ who has died, but rather also [who is] raised, who is also at [the] right [hand] of God, who also intercedes for us.
Romans 14:9: For this Christ both died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord both of [the] dead and living.
Romans 14:15: But if your brother is grieved with [your] food, you no longer walk according to love. Do not with your food destroy him for whom Christ died.
1 Corinthians 8:11: And on your knowledge the weak brother will fall, he for whom Christ died.
1 Corinthians 15:3: For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures,

I suspect that popsthebuilder's thoughts, although a logical extension of identifiable post-Nicene doctrinal development, are shown by the above Scriptures to be inappropriate.

==============================================================================================

And considering (Post #176) “Why would GOD almighty send ITSELF to be a sacrifice and blood payment to ITSELF for the sin of man that HE knowingly instilled in them as potential from creation? How does this said blood payment and sacrificial lamb save one's soul? Please explain it to me. Then explain how if such is the case, then why does scripture say HE is pleased with no blood sacrifice.”, thoughts which I do not remember ever expressing in that way, I need to ask something.

Could it be that the actual basis upon which popsthebuilder's thoughts were built, could do with some further investigation by him?

How much investigating do you think I have done?

Do you think I just spout these things out without ever looking into them first?

GOD cannot die.

The spirit of GOD cannot die.

The temple of GOD can be destroyed though.

As far as your last statement is concerned.....I couldn't help but notice that you didn't even attempt to answer me, but you think I may need to go study.

Study with me....show me.....do not posit opinion without reference on such weighty matters.

Do you really think GOD died or are we missing each other because of the word Christ?



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[Albion]

How am I not Trinitarian?

You wrote:

I personally believe that the physical embodiment of the invisible God is Jesus Christ since spirit has no legs or arms thus the Holy Spirit is God is Jesus Christ,...

Maybe it is just a problem with your wording, but I believe I remember you saying something like this before.

 

[popsthebuilder]

You wrote:


[/B]
Maybe it is just a problem with your wording, but I believe I remember you saying something like this before.

So THE three are not One in your personal understanding or doctrine?

GOD is One.....check scripture....it isn't lying. The Spirit of GOD is the Holy Spirit and what wholly filled the Holy Temple that was destroyed and raised again on the third day.

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[Andrew]

You wrote:


[/B]
Maybe it is just a problem with your wording, but I believe I remember you saying something like this before.

Yup 3 and 1, 1 and 3, TRINITY

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[Albion]

That isn't exactly what the Trinity is all about, however. It's not just 3 somethings but also 1 God at the same time. There is one God, and that God is three persona who are not to be confused for each other or seen as the same thing although appearing different to our eyes or as taking on different roles at various times. The clearest exposition of the 3 in 1 view is probably John 14:26.

 

[Andrew]

That isn't exactly what the Trinity is all about, however. It's not just 3 somethings but also 1 God at the same time. There is one God, and that God is three persona who are not to be confused for each other or seen as the same thing although appearing different to our eyes or as taking on different roles at various times. The clearest exposition of the 3 in 1 view is probably John 14:26.

Refer to post 190, i strongly agree with it. There a three of the same body at work utilizing each other for a complete Godhead... Trinity again...

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[Albion]

Refer to post 190, i strongly agree with it. There a three of the same body at work utilizing each other for a complete Godhead... Trinity again...

Post 190 says nothing at all about the Holy Spirit, and it was what you explained about your thinking concerning the HS that caught my eye and prompted my comments in Post 194. See the highlighted/bolded part in particular.

 

[Andrew]

Post 190 says nothing at all about the Holy Spirit, and it was what you explained about your thinking concerning the HS that caught my eye and prompted my comments in Post 194. See the highlighted/bolded part in particular.

Because I said God/Father is the Holy Spirit and is Jesus Christ? Is that not the Trinity?

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