Passive Righteousness

[Imalive]

That's fine, but you didn't explain anything. If I knew Dutch perhaps you could better explain.

LOL

 

[Imalive]

I'm confused by what you're trying to say?

That false grace is just as dangerous as legalism. If ppl are told that the lost son who acts like a complete jerk and is called dead and lost, is saved but only has to get sanctified, who is gonna warn someone like that, that he needs to get saved? I have seen this a LOT in Holland and even pastors say: its fine hear. You do you. Actually that was the reason I backslid. If there had been one decent hell preacher, I even called a pastor for help, I would not have backslid.

 

[Lamb]

That false grace is just as dangerous as legalism. If ppl are told that the lost son who acts like a complete jerk and is called dead and lost, is saved but only has to get sanctified, who is gonna warn someone like that, that he needs to get saved? I have seen this a LOT in Holland and even pastors say: its fine hear. You do you.

What is false grace?

 

[psalms 91]

Bottom line is that as with anything there is a fine line of moderation and going to far to either side is not only wrong but dangerous as well

 

[Imalive]

What is false grace?

Lewdness, turning Gods grace into lewdness. False teachers do that. They teach that our sins past present future are forgiven, you don't even have to say sorry or repent, its all done away no matter what you do. God is always happy w you and He sees you like Jesus, no matter what.

 

[Lamb]

Lewdness, turning Gods grace into lewdness. False teachers do that. They teach that our sins past present future are forgiven, you don't even have to say sorry or repent, its all done away no matter what you do. God is always happy w you and He sees you like Jesus, no matter what.

Aren't your sins forgiven at the cross?

You see, it's true that all our sins are forgiven at the cross. It's also true that people still sin, so the law needs to be given to them to bring them to contrition and then God turns them to Him by giving them the gospel truth of forgiveness so they trust in Him. But it's still true, that our sins are forgiven at the cross.

Our righteousness isn't coming from anything within us...it's always outside of us and comes from God.

 

[psalms 91]

Aren't your sins forgiven at the cross?

You see, it's true that all our sins are forgiven at the cross. It's also true that people still sin, so the law needs to be given to them to bring them to contrition and then God turns them to Him by giving them the gospel truth of forgiveness so they trust in Him. But it's still true, that our sins are forgiven at the cross.

Our righteousness isn't coming from anything within us...it's always outside of us and comes from God.

The pricwe was paid for forgiveness but they are not forgiven until we ask and repent of them

 

[Lamb]

The pricwe was paid for forgiveness but they are not forgiven until we ask and repent of them

So the actual forgiveness wasn't achieved at the cross according to your beliefs? If it's not achieved until we ask and repent, how does that work with Jesus and the cross? Does He go back to die?

 

[psalms 91]

Enough explain 1 John 1:9-10 to me in light of your view

 

[Imalive]

So the actual forgiveness wasn't achieved at the cross according to your beliefs? If it's not achieved until we ask and repent, how does that work with Jesus and the cross? Does He go back to die?

Yes for our former sins. We're supposed to be a new creation and live like one. Thats why we have to grow up. The youngsters overcome the devil and then you become a father and get fruitful.

 

[Lamb]

Enough explain 1 John 1:9-10 to me in light of your view

That isn't a formula for salvation. But it is true that God will give us His Law to bring us to contrition and then He doesn't leave us there in despair. We confess to Him our sins and He will give us forgiveness. It's not a new forgiveness. It's what was earned at the cross. ALL our forgiveness comes from Jesus' death on the cross because that is what God accomplished for us since we can't get it anywhere else. He doles out that forgiveness from the cross more than we deserve. We don't earn it. We can ask for it, yes and He will give. He will give more and more and more so much more that it seems impossible but with God it's not.

 

[psalms 91]

Without repentance there is no forgiveness, we must turn from our sin, that doesnt mean we will not do it anymore but it does mean we must try and and be sorrowful towards our sin

 

[Imalive]

Lol I once said to God after a horrible outburst: You said that that old nature died. Well I dont see it. LOL.

 

[Imalive]

It is really possible to live like a new creation. Keep confessing it until you see it.
My ex did that. He always said: my wife loves cleaning.
And then he'd add: I am speaking the non existant into existance.
LOL

 

[popsthebuilder]

1 Corinthians 1:18 "For the message of the cross is foolishness [absurd and illogical] to those who are perishing and spiritually dead [because they reject it]"

The relationship we have with God is not something that is begun by us but by Him. Unbelievers want nothing to do with God. We can't have a relationship with God unless he initiates it and He does so by His Word (go ye into the world and preach the gospel...faith comes by hearing, etc)

But the deaf cannot hear.

One must hope on the Lord, having the capacity to both hear and believe. And to believe a thing is to live one's life in awe and belief. What things do you know whole heartedly, yet continue to ignore?

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[popsthebuilder]

Covered in sin how do you receive something...passively because your sin can't reach out to grab hold. It is placed upon you. Passively. Like the rain falling down, you didn't do anything to have it fall on your head.

So you don't think one dead in sin can hope on the Lord, and then hear and receive and believe?



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[popsthebuilder]

Are you saying that righteousness isn't given unless man gives God something first (hopes, dreams, goals, heart)?

God wants us to love Him but that isn't a requirement in receiving Christ's righteousness. We receive what He gives because He first loves us. Our love comes later when HE builds the relationship just like a father and child. The child only realizes as he grows how much he loves his father. He doesn't go into the relationship first saying he'll love him and give him his heart because he's a mere infant.

I must say; as soon as I heard I loved. That isn't to say I loved GOD prior to GOD loving me.

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[popsthebuilder]

What does the man who is covered in sin and the gospel message is foolishness to him decide?

You seem to be conflating one in known error with one who believes the mercy of GOD to be foolishness. One who doesn't know GOD cannot rightly claim any thing about GOD to be foolishness or not as they do not know one way or the other.

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[popsthebuilder]

I see you wrote ... "God who then begins to clean us up if we are willing". But the verse I showed you says that the gospel is foolishness to the unbeliever. The unbeliever won't be willing. Only God can make us believers. We can't choose that for ourselves.

Indeed GOD makes us believers, but those in danger are those who turn from this and continue in knowing error; placing wants or desires of the flesh over the love of GOD; seeking to do those things as opposed to doing out of belief and faithfulness in love.

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[popsthebuilder]

God uses His word to bring us to faith.

We can definitely be shown our foolishness and sin through God's Law. But the unbeliever can't repent and turn to God. It's God who turns us to Him.

I repented of what I knew was wrong in my life before I ever knew GOD. however; that is not to say that it wasn't the will of GOD for such to take place beforehand.

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