Passive Righteousness

[Lamb]

I'm just teasing. No flame intended.

You tease!

 

[Lamb]

Topic has been addressed in mukltiple threads and we are just chasing our tails here. Noone that I have seen has changed what they believed and it is still the same arguments.

Actually it's been presented differently so if you don't want to contribute in the thread you don't have to but I'm eager to discuss this stuff.

 

[psalms 91]

Maybe I will just start a few threads along the same lines with a different POV, seems to be the thing to do.

 

[Imalive]

Go read Romans 3 - 8...

Why should I? You just said the lost son was saved, so I can demand my inheritance and live in sin and don't complain if someone does that, its only about sanctification, not salvation.

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

Covered in sin how do you receive something...passively because your sin can't reach out to grab hold. It is placed upon you. Passively. Like the rain falling down, you didn't do anything to have it fall on your head.

Amen! Our righteousness is but a dirty rag without Christ, but when Christ is our righteousness, then the Holy Spirit begins to create new movements in our hearts. God does it all.

 

[Imalive]

Amen! Our righteousness is but a dirty rag without Christ, but when Christ is our righteousness, then the Holy Spirit begins to create new movements in our hearts. God does it all.

God does it all in us. That's why we're not passive. He works the wanting and the working in us.

 

[Lamb]

Amen! Our righteousness is but a dirty rag without Christ, but when Christ is our righteousness, then the Holy Spirit begins to create new movements in our hearts. God does it all.

Exactly! With a dirty rag, what can it do? But when we're covered in Christ's righteousness then God sees us as He sees His Son!

 

[MennoSota]

Why should I? You just said the lost son was saved, so I can demand my inheritance and live in sin and don't complain if someone does that, its only about sanctification, not salvation.

Can you quote me where I say...

You can demand your inheritance and live in sin

You have to read Romans 3 - 8 to understand what God tells us regarding your presupposition. God answers your objection quite clearly and shows you why your conclusion is wrong.

 

[MennoSota]

Topic has been addressed in mukltiple threads and we are just chasing our tails here. Noone that I have seen has changed what they believed and it is still the same arguments.

People generally don't change their opinion if they won't look at solid data. Instead they imagine that the truth is just an opinion.
Please read Romans 3 - 8. What does the data reveal?

 

[Imalive]

Can you quote me where I say...

You have to read Romans 3 - 8 to understand what God tells us regarding your presupposition. God answers your objection quite clearly and shows you why your conclusion is wrong.

You said that the lost son who did just that was saved. He was lost and dead. The old son was the Jews who didnt know Him and kept the law. The young son was the hookers and the tax collectors who were coming into the Kingdom.

 

[MennoSota]

You said that the lost son who did just that was saved. He was lost and dead. The old son was the Jews who didnt know Him and kept the law. The young son was the hookers and the tax collectors who were coming into the Kingdom.

Here's what I said:

The prodigal was a son...not by his choice, but by the Father’s choice. What the son did with his inheritance is an issue of sanctification not salvation.

Please do not make false claims about what I have said.
Read Romans 3 - 8 and find the answer to your question.

 

[Imalive]

Here's what I said:

Please do not make false claims about what I have said.
Read Romans 3 - 8 and find the answer to your question.

'Its not an issue of salvation' is to me: its not about being saved. He's saved, just not sanctified yet. The guy living w his dads wife, his spirit would be saved if he got kicked out of church, he was not just saved no matter what. Suppose Paul didnt kick him out like all those churches do today and say: its fine hear darling, you do you, then he'd get mislead and might die in sin.

 

[MennoSota]

'Its not an issue of salvation' is to me: its not about being saved. He's saved, just not sanctified yet. The guy living w his dads wife, his spirit would be saved if he got kicked out of church, he was not just saved no matter what. Suppose Paul didnt kick him out like all those churches do today and say: its fine hear darling, you do you, then he'd get mislead and might die in sin.

I have no idea what you are talking about in your response.
I take it you don't want the answer God provides in Romans 3-8.

 

[Imalive]

I have no idea what you are talking about in your response.
I take it you don't want the answer God provides in Romans 3-8.

That'll be it. Never mind, I get so tired of explaining things. I'm passive saved anyway.

 

[Imalive]

I have no idea what you are talking about in your response.
I take it you don't want the answer God provides in Romans 3-8.

That'll be it. Never mind, I get so tired of explaining things. I'm passive saved anyway.

 

[Josiah]

'Its not an issue of salvation' is to me: its not about being saved. He's saved, just not sanctified yet.

So, the issue is sanctification, not justification..... (I find that very likely)

Some thoughts, if I may....


1. Obviously, there is MYSTERY here.... Maybe God simply chose to not give us all the details (we don't have all the "dots"), maybe we lowly mere mortals with puny, limited, sinful, fallen brains can't wrap themselves around the things of God (thus, some humility is needed, some acknowledgement that God just may know more about the things of God than we do)... But we have truths that our puny brains can't connect. What else is new? How about the Trinity, the Two Natures of Christ, Inspiration, why even God Himself? Until the late 16th Century, we didn't speak of "theology" we spoke of "the Mysteries of God." Scripture commands us to be "Stewards of the mysteries of God" not Correctors of Completers of God. I keep thinking of the quote from Luther, "Humility is the foundation of all sound theology" and Wesley's quote "We must be bold where Scripture is bold and silent where Scripture is silent" and my Orthodox friend's frequent lament about Western Christianity "They forgot how to shut up."


2. To me, the distinction between Justification and Sanctification helps a lot. Justification (narrow sense in soteriology) is the COMING to life, born again, regeneration, the changed relationship with God, becoming a child of God. Sanctification is what we do as a child of God, as one who is justified, as one who is in this new/different relationship with God, one who is alive. The first is monergistic: God's doing, the second is synergistis: God empowers and calls but we do it - becoming more Christ-like, more loving/serving, more moral. Yes, life is a gift.... and yes, it is to be lived.


3. There are some classic/traditional Protestants who would THEORIZE (sic.... STRESS on that word) that PERHAPS (emphasis on that word) part of the workings of justification is that God changes our will. While I don't denounce that THEORY, I don't like it - simply because it suggests we have to tell God how He does things, God MUST submit to what makes sense to me, and it leaves the door at least a bit cracked to the idea that justification is synergistic and that the Savior is not Jesus but my will. I'd rather leave it as God chose to: alone. Seems to ME, any human theory about this seems to at least undermine what we both agree is the point: salvation is a GIFT, Jesus IS THE Savior. See point # 1.



- Josiah

.

 

[Imalive]

So, the issue is sanctification, not justification..... (I find that very likely)







.

Because he came back they say he was saved all the time, yet his dad said he was dead and lost and alive again. The lost son represented the lost sheep of Israel, the hookers and the tax collectors who had to get saved, they were not saved.

 

[Lamb]

Because he came back they say he was saved all the time, yet his dad said he was dead and lost and alive again. The lost son represented the lost sheep of Israel, the hookers and the tax collectors who had to get saved, they were not saved.

I'm confused by what you're trying to say?

 

[MennoSota]

That'll be it. Never mind, I get so tired of explaining things. I'm passive saved anyway.

That's fine, but you didn't explain anything. If I knew Dutch perhaps you could better explain.

 

[Imalive]

That's fine, but you didn't explain anything. If I knew Dutch perhaps you could better explain.

LOL