Catholics think synergism vs monergism is a protestant thing
If so MoreCoffee, they are obviously wrong.
It is impossible to avoid the issue and Catholics
do not avoid it.
What we were taught by our Catholic teachers was bold, clear synergism (in fact, semi-Pelagianism): "God HELPS those who help themselves" (by definition, that's synergism and at least partly Pelagianism). "Christ opened the gate to heaven but YOU have to get YOURSELF through it by what YOU do" (by definition that's synergism and at least partly Pelagianism). Yes, we were taught that the specific, singular, individual RC Denomination HELPS the individual save themselves - by supplying the "Treasury of Merits," by applying the EXACTLY SEVEN Sacraments that it itself owns and controls and doles out, by applying the assistance of the CURRENT APPROVED list of "Saints" and their petititions, by applying the intervention of the Virgin Mary.... but these are HELPS, ASSISTANCE as part of a cooperative, synergistic, "you do your part and God will do His part and EVENTUALLY (Probably after X years in Purgatory) the job will get done" soteriology. That's about as synergistic as it gets.
Now, OFFICIALLY/FORMALLY.... if the RC still remembered the Council of Orange and a lot of things it itself has actually affirmed over the years.... there's monergism (even Lutheranism!) there - as some now admit. You can find Catholics who will say that Justification IS done solely by God -- but that Sanctification is a lifelong process empowered by God (a very Protestant view, the one the RCC excommunicated Luther for). But whatever the official/formal position(s) of the RC Denomination is on this (and it's SO muddy, so entangled as to be impossible to determine that), what is actually taught is powerfully synergistic. It's "God HELPS those who help themselves" It's "you do your part, God does His part.... eventually..... after some years in Purgatory.... the job gets done." Pretty much the definition of synergism.
But yes, the two theories presented in the opening post ARE Protestant theories developed after Luther (and both rejected by Lutherans). They are both radical, "LOGICAL" theories and they continue to this day, often quite at war with one another (the Arminianists clearly but slowing winning). Lutherans reject them both. Catholics are de facto on the side of Arminius in so far as they too are synergists but you're right, they typically see this as a Protestant fight. Lutherans and typically Anglicans aren't involved since we reject both theories so it's an on-going debate among SOME (a minority of) Protestants.
somebody who is not a Catholic tells Catholics what they really believe.
I don't know of anyone who states what all Catholics believe. There are over one billion of them and I personally suspect that every possible idea, theory, belief, concept and opinion that is humanly possible exists among them. But I CAN say what we were taught in my Catholic parish.... and when many agree that's EXACTLY what they were/are taught and when no Catholic states that we were/are taught heresy and the RCC was/is heretical to teach that... then we have every reason to believe it IS taught. I can also quote the Catechism, I can also share what Catholic teachers have told me what is meant by that - and again when no Catholic disagrees, there's reason to accept it as true. For over 12 years, I have had MANY discussions with Catholic laity, Catholic teachers, Catholic apologists and YES CATHOLIC PASTORS (4 different ones) on this very topic, and yes - all have been very boldly, very classically synergistic (and most not only admitting that but defending that).
And yes, PART of the discussion involves definitions. You like to throw the word "grace" around a lot to make it SOUND as if you're agreeing with Protestants and that Protestants SHOULD believe Catholics are right on this topic. But as we both know, the word is typically meant differently. While both Protestants and Catholics use the word variously, what we mean in the context of narrow justification is quite different: Protestants mean a free gift, a divine blessing, something ENTIRELY from God to us - without ANY human thought or action involved. Catholics defined it to us: "It's God's empowering and help. Grace is like the spiritual gas God puts in our tank so that we can get ourselves where we need to be." Opposite definitions of the word. So YES, as we both know, Catholics may choose to SOUND Protestant (weird that they want to) but we all know what they mean is the exact opposite of what the Protestant does. It's just misleading for the Catholic to say to a Protestant, "We believe we are saved by grace alone" when they KNOW they mean the opposite of what the Protestant means by taht thus making the statement misleading; the honest Catholic would go on to say what Catholicism MEANS by "grace" in the context of justification so that the Protestant realizes how synergistic Catholicism typically is.
BTW, at websites, I've seen Catholics engage in the Arminian/Calvinist war - and it's ALWAYS purely, exclusively on the Arminianist side. Although I agree, they usually stay out of the fight (as typically do Lutherans and Anglicans).
- Josiah
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Same with uber-Arminian.
Same with uber-Arminian.
