Is God indifferent about denominations?

[Lamb]

How far do you think God's interest goes?

I think He has far more interest than people want to admit. If it deals with "beliefs" then He's not indifferent. Denominations are different because their theology is different. Does God care? Certainly. 1 Timothy 4:16 Watch you life and doctrine closely.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I think He has far more interest than people want to admit. If it deals with "beliefs" then He's not indifferent. Denominations are different because their theology is different. Does God care? Certainly. 1 Timothy 4:16 Watch you life and doctrine closely.

Catholic teaching agrees. God is not indifferent about the matters raised in the original post.

 

[Albion]

My position is that we cannot really decide when facing a claim that God isn't indifferent about "beliefs" or "how to be church" or "what a Christian ought to do in worship," etc. -- and that's what the posters have said who maintain that He sure does care! About what, exactly?

 

[Josiah]

I think He has far more interest than people want to admit. If it deals with "beliefs" then He's not indifferent. Denominations are different because their theology is different. Does God care? Certainly. 1 Timothy 4:16 Watch you life and doctrine closely.

God cares about RIGHT TEACHING..... but a congregation doesn't need to belong to ANY denomination for that.... indeed, there was right teaching CENTURIES before there was any denomination at all! Luther was teaching right doctrine before their was any Lutheran denomination.... and I'm sure one could find a non-denominational congregation today where the word is rightly taught and the sacraments rightly administered, where the congregation is effective in loving and discipling - without any intervention by any denomination. Indeed, some denominations may well make it HARDER to be a good congregation.

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

Out of the world's 2 and a bit billion Christians how many are in the LCMS?

Not many, maybe a few million, but quality does take priority over quantity, yes?

:smirk:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not many, maybe a few million, but quality does take priority over quantity, yes?

:smirk:

No. But those lacking the one can pretend to have the other

:smirk:

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

No. But those lacking the one can pretend to have the other

:smirk:

I won't argue that. I'd just say " judge a tree by it's fruits." I came to Confessional Lutheranism as an answer to prayer, not as a birthright and I imagine that the Faith that God's given to everyone here is as precious to him or her as my own faith is to me. If I felt another church held the standard of Truth, I'd stand for that church ( of course). I try not to go beyond what is written and stick with what God's gifted me. The Lord is good.

 

[Josiah]

Ah, but more people makes better so that the USA is many times better than Australia....

Seriously, I think the RC is a - relatively speaking - a good denomination. There is much to praise in it. But I doubt God cares too much about it as a denomination, I think God cares that His Word is being rightly taught by the church,, His Sacraments are being rightly administered by His people, that love is being effectively extended and people are being added to the Kingdom and being discipled. What legal/political/economic institutions Christians may choose to create PERHAPS to aide that I doubt is His primary concern. Nor do I think He cares much whether individual congregations are large or small, if they use an organ or a piano, whether they have green or tan carpeting, whether they call their spiritual teacher a preacher or a pastor or a priest, or whether their Constitution includes bylaws or not, whether their property is owned by a denomination or by the congregation, etc. I think if the structure is helpful in carrying out the Great Commission and Great Commandment, if it helps insure that the Word is being correctly taught and the Sacraments correctly administered - God's probably happy with it. But remember, denominations don't teach or love or disciple or evangelize - PEOPLE do.



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

I won't argue that. I'd just say " judge a tree by it's fruits." I came to Confessional Lutheranism as an answer to prayer, not as a birthright and I imagine that the Faith that God's given to everyone here is as precious to him or her as my own faith is to me. If I felt another church held the standard of Truth, I'd stand for that church ( of course). I try not to go beyond what is written and stick with what God's gifted me. The Lord is good.

God is good. That cannot be gainsaid.

 

[atpollard]

Out of the world's 2 and a bit billion Christians how many are in the LCMS?

Nearly 100% of the Invisible Church.
(Sorry, I couldn't resist the opening.) :bananmac:

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

Nearly 100% of the Invisible Church.
(Sorry, I couldn't resist the opening.) :bananmac:

Sounds right to me.

:smirk:

 

[popsthebuilder]

Okay.

How is a non-denominational church any different from the denominational ones?

No division.

 

[MoreCoffee]

No division.

That's not true. I've seen several non-denominational groups split - two over charismatic matters and one over baptism and a few others over issues that I did not understand.

 

[Josiah]

That's not true. I've seen several non-denominational groups split - two over charismatic matters and one over baptism and a few others over issues that I did not understand.

A non-denomination cannot split. A congregation can split (and some do).... a denomination can split (all the big ones have been the doing of your denomination)... but a non-denomination can't split. That's a bit like saying a non-country splits or a non-corporation splits.


A non-denom parish is non-denom (it's not rocket science, MC).... it isn't a part of a denomination, it is officially unaffiliated with any denomination. Such parishes are usually autonomous.

A denominational parish is a part of a denomination (this isn't hard, MC).... it is associated with (if not legally owned and operated by) a denomination. Such parishes are officially a part of a greater, inter-congregational legal/political/economic entity. St. Francis Catholic Church is a part of the RC Denomination, it is EXTREMELY denominational since the entire entity is legally owned and operated by the Diocese which in term is a subset of the Denomination. It is PROUD to be a part of "The Roman Catholic Church" as the sign by the road announces, it say "A Parish of the Roman Catholic Church" right on the bulletin and all its publications. It uses the Catechism of The Catholic Church (as its owner and operator mandates) and is suppose to (anyway) teach in accord with it. It is EXTREMELY denominational (more so than most denominational Protestant congregations.... mine for example is not legally owned by the LCMS, our parish holds title to our own property).


I think God cares about the Great Commandment and Great Commission.... I think He cares about the taught doctrine.... I don't think He cares much about denominations and their articles of incorporation, constitutions and by-laws, the ways it organizes colleges and publishing houses and such, I think PEOPLE decides how best to get things done and how best to handle the legalities and economics where they happen to be located. He cares WHAT is done and said - not all these legal/economic/political issues that are the issues of denominations. I suspect that if God cared a LOT about denominations, He would have mentioned them somewhere in the Bible. I SUSPECT God said NOTHING about denominations not because He was ignorant that denominations would exist for at least 1500 years (becoming quite important in the past 500-1000 years) but simple because He doesn't regard them as all that important. He is concerned about what CHRISTIANS do - their love, their ministry, their teachings.



- Josiah

 

[MoreCoffee]

A non-denomination cannot split. ...

Nonsense. Denominations split by creating one new denomination and one continuation denomination each with its own distinctive beliefs with non-denominational groups the same happens by instead of a denomination it is a single congregation that splits into a new congregation and a continuing congregation each with their own distinctive beliefs.

 

[Josiah]

I've seen several non-denominational groups split

A non-denomination cannot split. A congregation can split (and some do).... a denomination can split (all the big ones have been the doing of your denomination)... but a non-denomination can't split. That's a bit like saying a non-country splits or a non-corporation splits.


A non-denom parish is non-denom (it's not rocket science, MC).... it isn't a part of a denomination, it is officially unaffiliated with any denomination. Such parishes are usually autonomous.

A denominational parish is a part of a denomination (this isn't hard, MC).... it is associated with (if not legally owned and operated by) a denomination. Such parishes are officially a part of a greater, inter-congregational legal/political/economic entity. St. Francis Catholic Church is a part of the RC Denomination, it is EXTREMELY denominational since the entire entity is legally owned and operated by the Diocese which in term is a subset of the Denomination. It is PROUD to be a part of "The Roman Catholic Church" as the sign by the road announces, it say "A Parish of the Roman Catholic Church" right on the bulletin and all its publications. It uses the Catechism of The Catholic Church (as its owner and operator mandates) and is suppose to (anyway) teach in accord with it. It is EXTREMELY denominational (more so than most denominational Protestant congregations.... mine for example is not legally owned by the LCMS
, our parish holds title to our own property).


I think God cares about the Great Commandment and Great Commission.... I think He cares about the taught doctrine.... I don't think He cares much about denominations and their articles of incorporation, constitutions and by-laws, the ways it organizes colleges and publishing houses and such, I think PEOPLE decides how best to get things done and how best to handle the legalities and economics where they happen to be located. He cares WHAT is done and said - not all these legal/economic/political issues that are the issues of denominations. I suspect that if God cared a LOT about denominations, He would have mentioned them somewhere in the Bible. I SUSPECT God said NOTHING about denominations not because He was ignorant that denominations would exist for at least 1500 years (becoming quite important in the past 500-1000 years) but simple because He doesn't regard them as all that important. He is concerned about what CHRISTIANS do - their love, their ministry, their teachings.


.

Nonsense. Denominations split

Denominations can split (all the really big splits have been by your denomination) but a Non-Denomination can't split simply because it doesn't exist can't split. Come on, my friend..... Irrelevant anyway....




.:focus:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Denominations can split (all the really big splits have been by your denomination) but a Non-Denomination can't split simply because it doesn't exist can't split. Come on, my friend..... Irrelevant anyway....

You sure had to do some creative editing to make that reply. I guess you did it because you could not reply to what was written without playing around with it to the point of total misrepresentation.

 

[Albion]

You sure had to do some creative editing to make that reply. I guess you did it because you could not reply to what was written without playing around with it to the point of total misrepresentation.

Denominations split. In the case of a non-denominational church, it's a congregation dividing. Pretty simple, but it was also explained in the post above.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Denominations split. Otherwise, it's a congregation dividing. This was explained in the post above.

congregations split. split meas divide. Let's not play word games.

 

[Albion]

Denominations split. In the case of a non-denominational church, it's a congregation dividing.

congregations split. split meas divide. Let's not play word games.

You aren't telling us anything that I didn't state myself in my previous post.