Is God indifferent about denominations?

[NewCreation435]

Your church has no statement of principles and no statement of faith?

The church does have a belief statement, but it isn't a creed or confession
http://www.thesummitchurch.net/about/beliefs/

 

[MoreCoffee]

The church does have a belief statement, but it isn't a creed or confession
http://www.thesummitchurch.net/about/beliefs/

It is like a short confession isn't it. It covers the main points of evangelicalism, does the church also practise baptism and the lord's supper?

 

[NewCreation435]

That's a solid, impressive answer IMO. Yet, is what you've explained a strength or a weakness?

You have listed several considerations that seem to be strengths, but othr people would ask if the absence of oversight can easily lead to corruption and doctrinal aberrations? Financial hanky-panky and churches in which the pastor and his own family treat the place as a personal possession are not uncommon. Well, yes, that happens often with non-denominational congregations.

I would also point out that almost every non-denominational church has a de facto creed. It's often brief and it may not be one that anyone else has seen anywhere else, but a look at most non-denoms websites or facebook pages will show what amounts to a creed.

If there were none, the inquirer would think that just about any old belief you could think up would be acceptable, and the members of non-denominational congregations certainly do not intend that.

In an earlier post, I gave a link to the doctrinal statement of the church. It is very basic, but I believe that it is a good foundational doctrinal statement. I do think there are at least some doctrines we should have some agreement on. Being non denominatlonal doesn't mean that anything goes.
I'm not involved in the business end of the church, but I do know that there are some financial check and balances built into the system to try and prevent fraud. I know that an outside agency regularly audits our records to keep us accountable.

 

[Albion]

That is what I referred to in my other post as a de facto Creed. You say it's a belief statement, as though that's different from a Creed. So what is the difference?

For example, would it be perfectly acceptable in your congregation for a newcomer to join the church although he disagreed with almost every point in that belief statement and this was known to all the existing members??

 

[NewCreation435]

It is like a short confession isn't it. It covers the main points of evangelicalism, does the church also practise baptism and the lord's supper?

It does. I wish it practiced the Lord's Supper more often. We have had at least six people baptized this month on two different services. It was by immersion.

 

[Josiah]

How is a non-denominational church any different from the denominational ones?

Non-denominational congregations are non-denominational, my friend. They don't belong to any denomination.
Denominational congregations are a part of a denomination, my friend. They belong to a denomination.
It's not hard. It's not rocket science.


There are denominational congregations and non-denominational ones. Non-denominational congregations are autonomous and independent, "stand alone." Usually they DO cooperate with other congregations but do this through independent ministries (mission societies, independent Christian colleges, etc.). They may contract with an auditing company to oversee their finances. But the vast majority of congregations join some denomination (yours is the largest). Some denominations are pretty loose, more resources than anything with little to no authority. Others are very controlling and (like yours),for example it may actually legally own the congregation and its facilities.


I don't think God cares a whole lot about how Christians choose to organize themselves. I think He cares what they DO - what they teach and how they minister. The purity of preaching and the right administration of the Sacraments, the "working out" of the Great Commandment and Great Commission. I think God cares about what is taught and done in His Name: Congregations are to teach purely, love faithfully, go and make disciples.



Thank you.


- Josiah



.

 

[MoreCoffee]

It does. I wish it practiced the Lord's Supper more often. We have had at least six people baptized this month on two different services. It was by immersion.

Is baptism only granted to people who can make a credible confession of faith in Jesus Christ?

 

[NewCreation435]

That is what I referred to in my other post as a de facto Creed. You say it's a belief statement, as though that's different from a Creed. So what is the difference?

For example, would it be perfectly acceptable in your congregation for a newcomer to join the church although he disagreed with almost every point in that belief statement and this was known to all the existing members??

We do not have a formal joining process. If you attend then your considered a member. I've been going for about four or five months now and have never been asked to join or seen people come forward at the end of the service to join.

 

[NewCreation435]

Is baptism only granted to people who can make a credible confession of faith in Jesus Christ?

Yes. They are asked before and also right before they are baptized in front of the congregation

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes. They are asked before and also right before they are baptized in front of the congregation

The statement of faith along with baptismal practise appears to situate them as an independent Baptist style of church - do you think that is about right?

 

[Albion]

We do not have a formal joining process. If you attend then your considered a member. I've been going for about four or five months now and have never been asked to join or seen people come forward at the end of the service to join.

OK, I realize that different non-denoms have different policies when it comes to membership. But my question was really this--does it matter if a new member disbelieves, rejects, some or all of the points in the belief statement?

That is to say, would there be any concern at all on the part of the pastor or any of the people, or would they say "to each his own. We're non-denominational!"

You wrote earlier that your church definitely is not an "anything goes" church, but I am curious about how that would translate into real practice. Would such a person as I've described (and I do not consider it to be all that improbable) be considered the same as everyone else, be asked to help with the Sunday School, etc. etc.?

 

[NewCreation435]

The statement of faith along with baptismal practise appears to situate them as an independent Baptist style of church - do you think that is about right?

To some extent. Most Baptist churches have a more evangelistic emphasis in their sermons and ask people to come forward for altar calls at the end of the service. We don't do that. I have asked my pastor about why and he said that people generally were not asked to pray the sinner's prayer before the 1700's and the sinner's prayer is not found in the Bible. He said to be a follower of Jesus is to put your faith in Him which is what our church asks people to do in some form or fashion every week. Every Baptist church I have ever been in uses the sinner's prayer and has more of a emphasis on evangelism and getting people saved by having them pray that prayer. To be honest, I find the approach that we use in the church I attend now more biblical.
I think to assume that people are saved because they prayed a prayer amounts to giving some people a false sense of security. I have seen many people who have prayed a prayer, but realistically don't live for Christ and don't put their trust in Him on a daily basis. I think what we do is more biblically sound

 

[MoreCoffee]

To some extent. Most Baptist churches have a more evangelistic emphasis in their sermons and ask people to come forward for altar calls at the end of the service. We don't do that. I have asked my pastor about why and he said that people generally were not asked to pray the sinner's prayer before the 1700's and the sinner's prayer is not found in the Bible. He said to be a follower of Jesus is to put your faith in Him which is what our church asks people to do in some form or fashion every week. Every Baptist church I have ever been in uses the sinner's prayer and has more of a emphasis on evangelism and getting people saved by having them pray that prayer.

Okay. In Australia Baptists behave differently from that. But I am sure "the sinner prayer" is common in evangelical circles here. Thanks for answering my questions.

 

[NewCreation435]

OK, I realize that different non-denoms have different policies when it comes to membership. But my question was really this--does it matter if a new member disbelieves, rejects, some or all of the points in the belief statement?

That is to say, would there be any concern at all on the part of the pastor or any of the people, or would they say "to each his own. We're non-denominational!"

You wrote earlier that your church definitely is not an "anything goes" church, but I am curious about how that would translate into real practice. Would such a person as I've described (and I do not consider it to be all that improbable) be considered the same as everyone else, be asked to help with the Sunday School, etc. etc.?

to be honest, I am not sure as I haven't been personally involved in the leadership or anything like that. We don't have Sunday School by the way. We have groups that meet during the week. I don't know if when you agree to be a group leader they ask you belief questions. That could be something that I might do in the future, but probably not anytime soon. I am getting involved in the life care ministry of the church and so far I have met with the life care pastor once. He did ask me a lot of questions about my background and education. I am suppose to meet with them again in a few weeks.

 

[NewCreation435]

Okay. In Australia Baptists behave differently from that. But I am sure "the sinner prayer" is common in evangelical circles here. Thanks for answering my questions.

There is a variety of approaches even among Baptists.

 

[Albion]

to be honest, I am not sure as I haven't been personally involved in the leadership or anything like that. We don't have Sunday School by the way. We have groups that meet during the week. I don't know if when you agree to be a group leader they ask you belief questions. That could be something that I might do in the future, but probably not anytime soon. I am getting involved in the life care ministry of the church and so far I have met with the life care pastor once. He did ask me a lot of questions about my background and education. I am suppose to meet with them again in a few weeks.

It looks to me, from your answer, that it DOES matter if the newcomer subscribes to the church's Bible statement. He may not be 'shown the door' if he's known to disagree with its tenets, but whether he'd be considered a first-rate member and considered eligible for taking on any of the leadership positions in the church with that attitude seems unlikely. If so, the Bible statement is a creed; it's just not one of the historic ones that the undivided church of the first millennium drew up and which most of today's churches still use.

 

[Lamb]

It probably depends on how one reads the OP's question. If we ask whether all doctrines are equally correct or if it matters in the long run every last thing that we believe...the answer is no. But if the question really is asking if God "cares" about our stands on all the lesser issues that divide us into competing denominations--all of that which is beyond the basics of the Gospel (Christ is Lord, salvation is by faith and trust in Him, we ought to strive to live as he taught in the Sermon on the Mount and in accord with the Commandments, etc.) then it's yes.

He is "indifferent" towards all of that, although I think the word indifferent is too strong. He is not "indifferent" towards the distinction between right and wrong, but he is not going to judge us on how we do Communion, what we think heaven is like, who is running the congregation, what exactly a sacrament is and how many of them there are, and so on.

I don't think God is indifferent at all especially in regards to important things such as Communion (wine or juice...of course He cares) and I believe also that He is involved in placing members in various roles throughout the church.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I don't think God is indifferent at all ...

How far do you think God's interest goes?

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

There are a lot of denominations in the world and they have different ideas about how to be church and what a Christian ought to believe as well as what a Christian ought to do in worship so is God indifferent about those things?

I'm not sure I'd say indifferent, per se, because of course God wants His people to be one, as He and the Son are One ( together with the Holy Spirit). I will say that God's Church remains united, although members of the Body of Christ are dispersed into many denominations with different theological and historical traditions. Of course, I think the Church closest to the original, Apostolic Faith continues in and through the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod, although God's people are present in every Trinitarian church.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm not sure I'd say indifferent, per se, because of course God wants His people to be one, as He and the Son are One ( together with the Holy Spirit). I will say that God's Church remains united, although members of the Body of Christ are dispersed into many denominations with different theological and historical traditions. Of course, I think the Church closest to the original, Apostolic Faith continues in and through the Lutheran Church- Missouri Synod, although God's people are present in every Trinitarian church.

Out of the world's 2 and a bit billion Christians how many are in the LCMS?