the meaning of Baptism

[NewCreation435]

Your procedure would be valid if baptism weren't something God does in man. But with God nothing is impossible. He can bring faith easily to an adult who fights him so how much easier would it be to bring an infant to faith by His Word through the waters of baptism? God's Word is present in those waters because God promises us...He is the one who ordains baptism and scriptures that have been provided in the linked threads Josiah provided give proof that God brings us the benefits of the cross in baptism.

I'm sorry that makes absolutely no sense to me. How an infant would be brought to faith by His Word through baptism. The thread links don't provide proof. They provide evidence of other conversations. the Bible is the only document I am going to go to for proof and I don't see anywhere that God saves infants through baptism in the bible at all.

 

[Josiah]

I'm sorry that makes absolutely no sense to me. How an infant would be brought to faith by His Word through baptism. The thread links don't provide proof. They provide evidence of other conversations. the Bible is the only document I am going to go to for proof and I don't see anywhere that God saves infants through baptism in the bible at all.

Friend,

Frankly, I'm not SURE that - by verbatim words of Scripture alone - it can be dogmatically stated what God can do and/or does do in and through Baptism. In MY opinion, it often comes down to whether one proceeds from a monergistic or synergistic framework. For the monergist, who believes that Jesus does the saving, that God can use Baptism in his plan of salvation ... and that "Baptism now saves you" means that... seems very possible. And certainly that was the earliest understanding of Christians and the only one until the Anabaptists came around in the 16th Century. BUT the synergist, who believes that salvation is a cooperative, synergistic, process of Jesus doing His part and self doing our part.... who understand that people must be ABLE to jump through all the hoops they must jump through to be saved.... infant baptism makes no sense (after all, I wasn't even conscience.... and more than a few babies sleep through the whole thing, usually to the delight of the pastor and parents). Does one assume that God alone gives life (and thus God causes us to be born again) OR is God only the helper or enabler or possibility-maker and we must be ABLE to do our part? Is God impotent to save those under a certain age or IQ or other ability? Or is that irrelevant because it's Jesus who saves (Jesus being the Savior). For the synergist, infant baptism will be silly (what can babies DO to save themselves?), but to the monergist, God is no less able to save a baby than an adult - no less able to move John the Baptist still in the womb than to move some 45 year old dude with an IQ of 300, 6 Ph.D., and has been ordained in 5 denominations. All comes down to who does the saving: God or self? To monergism or synergism. But, yes, based on ONLY the verbatim words in the Bible, I don't think we can prove EITHER that Baptism is effective or not, whether God uses it or not (does seem strange it is seem as SO important if it's so ineffectual, however... why command something EQUALLY with teaching if it's pretty much a waste of time and water?).

But to ME, there are two separate issues here: Whether God can and/or does use Baptism and teaching? And whether God forbids any to be baptized and/or taught if they have not yet attained the age of X (whatever that age is; never can seem to get anyone to say). Those are NOT the same issue. True, the only verse found in the first is "Baptism now saves you." And for the second, "Go and baptize... teach.... all nations." But here's what I don't see: "God is impotent to save those under the age of X or under the IQ of X" and "You are forbidden to baptize any under the age of X."


Understand my perspective?


- Josiah

 

[NewCreation435]

Friend,

Frankly, I'm not SURE that - by verbatim words of Scripture alone - it can be dogmatically stated what God can do and/or does do in and through Baptism. In MY opinion, it often comes down to whether one proceeds from a monergistic or synergistic framework. For the monergist, who believes that Jesus does the saving, that God can use Baptism in his plan of salvation ... and that "Baptism now saves you" means that... seems very possible. And certainly that was the earliest understanding of Christians and the only one until the Anabaptists came around in the 16th Century. BUT the synergist, who believes that salvation is a cooperative, synergistic, process of Jesus doing His part and self doing our part.... who understand that people must be ABLE to jump through all the hoops they must jump through to be saved.... infant baptism makes no sense (after all, I wasn't even conscience.... and more than a few babies sleep through the whole thing, usually to the delight of the pastor and parents). Does one assume that God alone gives life (and thus God causes us to be born again) OR is God only the helper or enabler or possibility-maker and we must be ABLE to do our part? Is God impotent to save those under a certain age or IQ or other ability? Or is that irrelevant because it's Jesus who saves (Jesus being the Savior). For the synergist, infant baptism will be silly (what can babies DO to save themselves?), but to the monergist, God is no less able to save a baby than an adult - no less able to move John the Baptist still in the womb than to move some 45 year old dude with an IQ of 300, 6 Ph.D., and has been ordained in 5 denominations. All comes down to who does the saving: God or self? To monergism or synergism. But, yes, based on ONLY the verbatim words in the Bible, I don't think we can prove EITHER that Baptism is effective or not, whether God uses it or not (does seem strange it is seem as SO important if it's so ineffectual, however... why command something EQUALLY with teaching if it's pretty much a waste of time and water?).

But to ME, there are two separate issues here: Whether God can and/or does use Baptism and teaching? And whether God forbids any to be baptized and/or taught if they have not yet attained the age of X (whatever that age is; never can seem to get anyone to say). Those are NOT the same issue. True, the only verse found in the first is "Baptism now saves you." And for the second, "Go and baptize... teach.... all nations." But here's what I don't see: "God is impotent to save those under the age of X or under the IQ of X" and "You are forbidden to baptize any under the age of X."


Understand my perspective?


- Josiah

no, not really

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm just going to point this out and leave it at that because I don't care to argue over elementary things. It's time to lose that governor of law and replace it with a mature outlook on the part of organized religion. The gift is from God. Just like Able there is an offering/sacrifice to be made.

Heb 11:4
By faith G4102 Abel G6 offered G4374 unto God G2316 a more excellent G4119 sacrifice G2378 than G3844 Cain, G2535 by G1223 which G3739 he obtained witness G3140 that he was G1511 righteous, G1342 God G2316 testifying G3140 of G1909 his G846 gifts: G1435 and G2532 by G1223 it G846 he being dead G599 yet G2089 speaketh. G2980 G2980

Able's offering has nothing whatever to do with baptism.

 

[MoreCoffee]

There was a guy on a Dutch reformed forum who asked in 2013 if someone could advise him. He just had a baby and should he get the baby baptized or not?
LOL 180 pages now. They're still beating each other up over it. The guy never got an answer.

Ask him to come here. I'll write an answer right here for him.

Baptise your infant if you can and if your conscience calls you to do it - because it is never safe nor is it ever godly to go against a bible trained conscience.

 

[Lamb]

Here is a copy and paste from a bible study my friend did and she gave me permission to use it.

1. WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM?

1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:3-10. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through Baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

* Note: These passages from Colossians and Romans are summarized well by Dr. Lowell Green: “Baptism is the retroactive participation in the work of Good Friday and Easter Sunday — even better, it is incorporation into the body of the risen and ascended Savior ...”

Galatians 3:27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Eph. 5:26. Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.

Titus 3:5. He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

Corinthians 12:13. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:11. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Acts 22:16. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

* Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.



2. WHO IS TO BE BAPTIZED?

Matthew 28:19-20. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Mark 16:15-16. And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


2. Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

* Note: The burden of proof lies on those who would choose to deny God’s gift of Baptism to an entire class of people.


3. ARE THERE ANY INDICATIONS IN THE BIBLE THAT INFANTS WERE BAPTIZED?

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

* Note: Circumcision was a rite associated almost exclusively with infants (eight days old). It would be odd to refer to Baptism as the “circumcision of Christ” if Baptism of infants was to be forbidden while circumcision was given almost exclusively to infants. (Note also that infants did receive Jewish proselyte baptism.)

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Acts 16:14-15. One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home.

1 Corinthians 1:16. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.

Acts 16:33. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

* Note: Households included all members of the family (which usually included extended family) as well as servants and their families. For this reason, it would be unlikely that none of the households referred to above included a baby.

* Note: There is very strong historical evidence that Infant Baptism has been the common practice of the Christian Church since the first century of the Christian era, and was almost entirely unopposed until the 1500’s. For more information, see http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/kastens.htm. Historical information from outside the Bible does not prove what is right, but humility would suggest that we should think twice before concluding that the whole Christian Church got it wrong for about one and a half millennia — especially when it is seen that a strong Biblical case can be made for infant Baptism.

 

[Lamb]

4. ARE INFANTS IN NEED OF THE BLESSINGS THAT BAPTISM GIVES?

Psalm 51:5. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Ecclesiastes 7:20. For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Romans 3:20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

John 3:6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


3. Romans 8:7. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Ephesians 2:1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.


5. ARE INFANTS CAPABLE OF RECEIVING GOD’S BLESSINGS?

Luke 1:15. For he [John the Baptist] will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

Luke 1:41-44. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice and said, 'Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.'"

* John the Baptist is an example of the Holy Spirit being active in an infant. Since Baptism is associated with receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), this indicates that infants can receive this benefit of Baptism. We are not to deny this gift to children, but are to bring them to Him for this blessing.

Luke 18:15-17. And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, 'Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.''

* Note: The Greek word translated “babies” in this passage (brephe) referred to children in the womb and newborns. These were babies, not older children.

* Note: Our Lord Jesus clearly states that infants can receive the kingdom of God. Since they were sinful from conception, and because that which is born of the flesh is flesh (which is hostile to God), this means that it must also be possible for infants to be born of the Spirit — otherwise, they could not receive the kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:1-6. At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'' And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Matthew 21:15-16. But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant. "Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him. "Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read, 'From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise'?"

* Note: Since we already know from God’s Word that infants can receive the Holy Spirit and can receive the kingdom of God, it should not surprise us that Jesus here refers to small children believing in Him (which could also be translated as having faith in Him) and children and infants praising Him. It is the Holy Spirit who creates faith, and the kingdom of God is received by faith.

* Note: Since Jesus says that small children can believe in Him, we can properly speak of small children who are believers in Christ — “Christians.” If they are capable of being Christians, they should not be denied Baptism.

* Note: This (small children being believers) is reflected in early Christian tomb inscriptions. The faith of infants is also referred to in the writings of important teachers in the early church (such as Augustine). Following are quotes from a few pastors and theologians about the faith of these little ones who believe in Christ:

 

[MoreCoffee]

How many readers read such long posts?

:smirk:

 

[Lamb]

How many readers read such long posts?

:smirk:

Most (of my copy paste) are scripture quotes.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Most (of my copy paste) are scripture quotes.

Yeah. That's nice to see. I have a bible on my desk. I use it often.

 

[MennoSota]

Friend,

Frankly, I'm not SURE that - by verbatim words of Scripture alone - it can be dogmatically stated what God can do and/or does do in and through Baptism. In MY opinion, it often comes down to whether one proceeds from a monergistic or synergistic framework. For the monergist, who believes that Jesus does the saving, that God can use Baptism in his plan of salvation ... and that "Baptism now saves you" means that... seems very possible. And certainly that was the earliest understanding of Christians and the only one until the Anabaptists came around in the 16th Century. BUT the synergist, who believes that salvation is a cooperative, synergistic, process of Jesus doing His part and self doing our part.... who understand that people must be ABLE to jump through all the hoops they must jump through to be saved.... infant baptism makes no sense (after all, I wasn't even conscience.... and more than a few babies sleep through the whole thing, usually to the delight of the pastor and parents). Does one assume that God alone gives life (and thus God causes us to be born again) OR is God only the helper or enabler or possibility-maker and we must be ABLE to do our part? Is God impotent to save those under a certain age or IQ or other ability? Or is that irrelevant because it's Jesus who saves (Jesus being the Savior). For the synergist, infant baptism will be silly (what can babies DO to save themselves?), but to the monergist, God is no less able to save a baby than an adult - no less able to move John the Baptist still in the womb than to move some 45 year old dude with an IQ of 300, 6 Ph.D., and has been ordained in 5 denominations. All comes down to who does the saving: God or self? To monergism or synergism. But, yes, based on ONLY the verbatim words in the Bible, I don't think we can prove EITHER that Baptism is effective or not, whether God uses it or not (does seem strange it is seem as SO important if it's so ineffectual, however... why command something EQUALLY with teaching if it's pretty much a waste of time and water?).

But to ME, there are two separate issues here: Whether God can and/or does use Baptism and teaching? And whether God forbids any to be baptized and/or taught if they have not yet attained the age of X (whatever that age is; never can seem to get anyone to say). Those are NOT the same issue. True, the only verse found in the first is "Baptism now saves you." And for the second, "Go and baptize... teach.... all nations." But here's what I don't see: "God is impotent to save those under the age of X or under the IQ of X" and "You are forbidden to baptize any under the age of X."


Understand my perspective?


- Josiah

Infant baptism unto salvation would be a synergistic concept, meaning, God plus. "To procure salvation for an infant one must baptize them" is an adding of human effort to God's gracious salvation.
If you are going to follow a monergist view you should admit that God is more than capable of adopting infants and mentally disabled persons by His choice, apart from anything we do. Baptizing infants has no spiritual value. But, it can be an outward presentation to the community of believers that a family and church are covenanting to raise up that child in the way of God. To that end I can accept it, but any teaching that infant baptism saves is a non-biblical, false hope, created by a denomination outside of scripture. It can give false thinking regarding regeneration and an imagination that there is no need for God to bring life to that person's spiritual deadness. We dare not formulate a false gospel revolving around salvation by works.

 

[MennoSota]

Ask him to come here. I'll write an answer right here for him.

Baptise your infant if you can and if your conscience calls you to do it - because it is never safe nor is it ever godly to go against a bible trained conscience.

But your conscience on infant baptism is not bible trained, it's denomination trained.

 

[MoreCoffee]

But your conscience on infant baptism is not bible trained, it's denomination trained.

Says the man who does not believe what Romans 6:3-9 says.

 

[MennoSota]

Here is a copy and paste from a bible study my friend did and she gave me permission to use it.

1.WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM?

1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:3-10. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through Baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

* Note: These passages from Colossians and Romans are summarized well by Dr. Lowell Green: “Baptism is the retroactive participation in the work of Good Friday and Easter Sunday — even better, it is incorporation into the body of the risen and ascended Savior ...”

Galatians 3:27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Eph. 5:26. Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.

Titus 3:5. He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

Corinthians 12:13. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:11. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Acts 22:16. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

* Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.



2. WHO IS TO BE BAPTIZED?

Matthew 28:19-20. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Mark 16:15-16. And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


2.Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

* Note: The burden of proof lies on those who would choose to deny God’s gift of Baptism to an entire class of people.


3. ARE THERE ANY INDICATIONS IN THE BIBLE THAT INFANTS WERE BAPTIZED?

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

* Note: Circumcision was a rite associated almost exclusively with infants (eight days old). It would be odd to refer to Baptism as the “circumcision of Christ” if Baptism of infants was to be forbidden while circumcision was given almost exclusively to infants. (Note also that infants did receive Jewish proselyte baptism.)

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Acts 16:14-15. One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home.

1 Corinthians 1:16. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.

Acts 16:33. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

* Note: Households included all members of the family (which usually included extended family) as well as servants and their families. For this reason, it would be unlikely that none of the households referred to above included a baby.

* Note: There is very strong historical evidence that Infant Baptism has been the common practice of the Christian Church since the first century of the Christian era, and was almost entirely unopposed until the 1500’s. For more information, see http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/kastens.htm. Historical information from outside the Bible does not prove what is right, but humility would suggest that we should think twice before concluding that the whole Christian Church got it wrong for about one and a half millennia — especially when it is seen that a strong Biblical case can be made for infant Baptism.

I don't have time to explain how none of these verses supports infant baptism. The example provided is a misuse of scripture to establish a prooftext out of context and thus holds little legitimate argumentation.
It is best, in my opinion, to simply trust that God knows each persons time of life and death and that he is responsible for choosing whom he will adopt. God is more than capable to extend grace to those who cannot comprehend their sin nature. No amount of water sprinkled by humans is going to affect God's choice.

 

[MennoSota]

Most (of my copy paste) are scripture quotes.

This is true, but taking a couple sentences out of context as a prooftext is not beneficial.

 

[Albion]

I don't have time to explain how none of these verses supports infant baptism..

Some, probably do not. Others definitely do, however.

 

[Lamb]

But your conscience on infant baptism is not bible trained, it's denomination trained.

Actually it's God trained since God works in baptism.

 

[MennoSota]

Says the man who does not believe what Romans 6:3-9 says.

I believe God's word. I also know that the baptism spoken of in Romans 6 is the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit. It's full immersion into the body of Chriist. (That’s why we don't need to take communion over and over in order to maintain our salvation.)
Romans 6:1-9
[1]Well then, should we keep on sinning so that God can show us more and more of his wonderful grace?
[2]Of course not! Since we have died to sin, how can we continue to live in it?
[3]Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death?
[4]For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.
[5]Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was.
[6]We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin.
[7]For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin.
[8]And since we died with Christ, we know we will also live with him.
[9]We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I believe God's word. I also know that the baptism spoken of in Romans 6 is the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit. ...

I'd agree with you except that I am fairly sure that you think that the baptism performed by the Holy Spirit does not involve water.

No wonder Baptists get all confused when people read the bible to them.

:smirk:

 

[Imalive]

Ask him to come here. I'll write an answer right here for him.

Baptise your infant if you can and if your conscience calls you to do it - because it is never safe nor is it ever godly to go against a bible trained conscience.

He left 4 years ago. Nobody cared about him or his kid. They're still fighting.