Purgatory?

[MennoSota]

Jesus and Moses and Elijah

And when he saw Jesus, did he see the glory of God?

The context of 1 John 4 is specific to those to whom he writes. I have presented a number of places where God's glory is revealed and God chooses not to kill that person. Are these passages not speaking truth? Was Gideon lying? Was Moses lying. Was Isaiah lying?

 

[Imalive]

And when he saw Jesus, did he see the glory of God?

The context of 1 John 4 is specific to those to whom he writes. I have presented a number of places where God's glory is revealed and God chooses not to kill that person. Are these passages not speaking truth? Was Gideon lying? Was Moses lying. Was Isaiah lying?

No that was Jesus, not the invisible omnipresent Father who dwells in unapproachable Light, unless we should agree the modalists are right.

https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/seen-God.html

 

[MennoSota]

No that was Jesus, not the invisible omnipresent Father who dwells in unapproachable Light, unless we should agree the modalists are right.

https://www.google.nl/amp/s/www.gotquestions.org/amp/seen-God.html

Who did Satan approach?

When Moses was on Mount Sinai receiving the commandments, was that Jesus who talked with him?

 

[Imalive]

Who did Satan approach?

When Moses was on Mount Sinai receiving the commandments, was that Jesus who talked with him?

In job? I have no idea, but satan is dead already and not a human.
Yes

 

[Imalive]

And Mosheh led forth the people out of the camp to meet the Word of the Lord; and they stood at the lower parts of the mount.


https://www.google.nl/amp/s/natsab.com/2013/12/04/was-jesus-on-mt-sinai-does-it-matter/amp/

 

[MennoSota]

In job? I have no idea, but satan is dead already and not a human.
Yes

Satan is not dead.

My point is that John is not making a universal statement, but is making a general statement.
Second, Ezekiel 1 presents that there is an expanse between God and His creation so that while Ezekiel could see the throne and God's glory, he could not rise to that position.
Of course, this has nothing to do with purgatory because purgatory is a made up concept of the Roman church in an effort to cast down grace and lift up works.

 

[Andrew]

Satan is not dead.

My point is that John is not making a universal statement, but is making a general statement.
Second, Ezekiel 1 presents that there is an expanse between God and His creation so that while Ezekiel could see the throne and God's glory, he could not rise to that position.
Of course, this has nothing to do with purgatory because purgatory is a made up concept of the Roman church in an effort to cast down grace and lift up works.

The idea of purgatory is more like indulgence and not work nor grace. Think about it, its like the priest forgiving sins, so live it up, have a smoke after service, get drunk and watch the football game on Sunday instead of Church and confess when the season is over. So purgatory says that you can depend on others prayers to bail you out of hell, or kinda of hell after death or whatever. After that you have eternal life in Heaven... It goes against grace and works.
I asked you before and you never answered. Do you believe in once saved always saved? It doesnt take any effort at all to say "i believe in Jesus", Christians need to act like Christians, faith without works is dead

 

[Imalive]

The idea of purgatory is more like indulgence and not work nor grace. Think about it, its like the priest forgiving sins, so live it up, have a smoke after service, get drunk and watch the football game on Sunday instead of Church and confess when the season is over. So purgatory says that you can depend on others prayers to bail you out of hell, or kinda of hell after death or whatever. After that you have eternal life in Heaven... It goes against grace and works.
I asked you before and you never answered. Do you believe in once saved always saved? It doesnt take any effort at all to say "i believe in Jesus", Christians need to act like Christians, faith without works is dead

I wonder what ppl mean w that, if they say they believe osas, it depends.
I'm osasawoys.
Once saved always saved and working out your salvation.
Philippians 1 and 2.

 

[Andrew]

I wonder what ppl mean w that, if they say they believe osas, it depends.
I'm osasawoys.
Once saved always saved and working out your salvation.
Philippians 1 and 2.

Because some dont believe in working out your salvation, they rip out the passages about backsliding, falling away and departing discipleship in Christ, repenting lest ye crucify Jesus a fresh.
In short Christians should act like Christians and God is not going to do all the work. It takes a willing soul and heart for God, the bride should be ready and prepared. The majority of people take advantage of grace and use it as an excuse for indulgence of sin, "oh I am saved because Jesus died for my sins, so I am allowed to keep sinning"

 

[Lamb]

The majority of people take advantage of grace and use it as an excuse for indulgence of sin, "oh I am saved because Jesus died for my sins, so I am allowed to keep sinning"

Who says that?

 

[Andrew]

Who says that?

I see it everywhere, I have conversations with people before. They would even say "i've gone to church a lot in the past, do you really think I am that bad that I still need to go?", God gives us grace so I can only pray for them, depressed and negative Christians dont understand that sin is what causing them to hurt so much, put some effort in prayer and believe the prayer and you will be changed and delivered from your sins. I honestly feel like its Christmas everyday, I had to believe what I prayed for to God to deliver me from, but I had to repent for its a must, the Holy Ghost will guide you through grace.

 

[Imalive]

Who says that?

I've heard people say that. I need sex so yeah I know its forbidden if you're not married, but those preachers have easy talking, so I just do that w out being married, praise God halleluja lets take the meal at church.
Or: I'm a practicing homosexual, but everybody sins and it's all grace, so I'm a christian.

 

[Lamb]

I've heard people say that they would do those things and insist that they weren't sinful. Are you sure they considered them to be sins (whether you consider it or not)?

 

[Imalive]

I've heard people say that they would do those things and insist that they weren't sinful. Are you sure they considered them to be sins (whether you consider it or not)?

Yes. It was on a Dutch reformed forum. One said that he could stop smoking, but not that, so well for everyone else there's God's grace too and the other first said that God thought it was okay, but then later he said that. And there are so many churches here that don't even warn people. They might preach it's sin, but there's no warning with the wine and bread at all and they have no clue what people do.
And it's both in reformed and evangelical churches. The reformed don't kick an unclean demon out if they need help and in evangelical churches that do help, some just don't want that and go to another church that's not so legalistic and holiness preaching, where noone cares what you do and you get feel nice messages. God loves you. You're saved by grace.

 

[Albion]

Who says that?

Fortunately, very few people and no Christian denominations.

 

[Imalive]

I have lived in sin. I backslid after the divorce. I ran off with a guy from a mental institute when my ex wanted to seperate a while and I had no patience, so I said can I take another one. Nobody, absolutely nobody from all these grace people warned me nor him. I wish there had been one old fashioned hell preacher who would have warned me, but nope. I called a pastor. Think he warned me? Nope. So we married ourselves in that institution and I seriously believed God was fine with it and we were married. I was living together in adultery. Went to a church later. Sweet nice people. God loves you. They laid hands on me. They said: why don't you marry him? You're such a nice couple.
Where's John the baptist these days? When he didnt want to really marry because it costed a cent I saw that I had been mislead and repented and came back to God.
I lost my kids almost a year. I prayed. He didn't give them. Carlos Annacondia said: because you turned your back on God! I didn't even get it then.
So thats why I hate grace and osas lol. Gimme some works based mix please.

 

[Imalive]

Fortunately, very few people and no Christian denominations.

Are you sure?
False grace teaching is rampant these days.
I used to be on christian chat. There were a lot of ppl and also preachers preaching false grace or recommending those teachers. I said to one, a preacher: but Paul says here that those don't inherit the Kingdom. Don't be mislead.
No blablabla all our sins are forgiven, past, present, future, no need to confess sins to be forgiven. It didn't matter. Once saved always saved.

 

[Albion]

Are you sure?
False grace teaching is rampant these days.
I used to be on christian chat. There were a lot of ppl and also preachers preaching false grace or recommending those teachers. I said to one, a preacher: but Paul says here that those don't inherit the Kingdom. Don't be mislead.
No blablabla all our sins are forgiven, past, present, future, no need to confess sins to be forgiven. It didn't matter. Once saved always saved.

Hmm. Well, I think I can see where the misunderstanding may be coming from. If you are one who supposes that "OSAS" or even Sola Fide are other ways of describing what I read above ("The majority of people take advantage of grace and use it as an excuse for indulgence of sin, "oh I am saved because Jesus died for my sins, so I am allowed to keep sinning") then it could look that way...but it's not so.

 

[Andrew]

Hmm. Well, I think I can see where the misunderstanding may be coming from. If you are one who supposes that "OSAS" or even Sola Fide are other ways of describing what I read above ("The majority of people take advantage of grace and use it as an excuse for indulgence of sin, "oh I am saved because Jesus died for my sins, so I am allowed to keep sinning") then it could look that way...but it's not so.

If you feel convicted by God of a sin you shouldn't keep resisting the Spirit, let it convict you and "work" on correcting it, Jesus gives us strength but there is no way you can allow conviction to build up and overtake you in the Spirit, you will crack because you cannot serve two masters.
For instance, if you have a drinking problem and the Lord convicts you of it, you can either allow it to condemn you (throw a pity party) or you can repent and pray for deliverance, believe the prayer and let Gods grace work in you.

 

[MennoSota]

I asked you before and you never answered. Do you believe in once saved always saved? It doesnt take any effort at all to say "i believe in Jesus", Christians need to act like Christians, faith without works is dead

I believe when God adopts you and gives you the gift of faith, he doesn't take it back when you screw up. You see, I believe in Grace and God's work of salvation, not our efforts to be saved.
A person can say a prayer and say "I believe" but never be adopted by God. Ephesians 1 says that God's chosen, adopted, children were chosen before the foundation of the world. What that means is that God will save each person that he wrote in the Lambs book of life. God's means of saving his children is by having the message of reconciliation shared. We who are his children are to obey and share the good news.
So, the concept of once saved, always saved is a pelagian and semi-pelagian concept full of poor soteriology.