Purgatory?

[MoreCoffee]

Purgatory.
Catechismus Romanus, I, vi, 3: “Besides [hell] there is a purging fire, by which the souls of the pious, tormented for a set time, are purified, so that they might enter the eternal fatherland, into which nothing defiled enters.” Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent, Sess. XXV, Decree Concerning Purgatory: “There is a purgatory, and … the souls there detained are aided by the suffrages of the faithful and chiefly by the acceptable sacrifice of the altar… The more difficult and subtle questions … are to be excluded from popular instructions to uneducated people. Likewise, things that are uncertain or have the appearance of falsehood they shall not permit to be made known publicly and discussed.” RCm refers to 2 Mac 12:43–45.
C. N. Callinicos, The Greek Orthodox Catechism (New York, 1960), p. 48: “Scripture … has never expressed anything whatever concerning a third state, such as a temporary Purgatory.”
The idea of purgatory entered the Ch. of Eng. through the Oxford* Movement (see also England, C 7) in the form of an intermediate* state but without developing into a gen. accepted teaching. Common opinion makes it less a process of purification than of development and growth, ending only at the Last Judgment.
Lutherans. regard purgatory as unscriptural, insulting to Christ, indefensible, mercenary. WA 7, 452; 30 III, 309; 44, 812; WA-T 3, 539.
See also Florence, Council of, 2; Indulgences. http://cyclopedia.lcms.org/display.asp?t1=P&word=PURGATORY

So you see, MC, for Lutherans, Purgatory simply isn't a topic discussed beyond its connection to the Catholic Church. I hope this humble offering from the LCMS Cyclopedia website offers some insight, though.

Some see purgatory or at least the concept of purging by fire as a part of Christian experience in these passages 2 Maccabees 12:39-45, Matthew 12:32, and 1 Corinthians 3:10-15

 

[Imalive]

When John saw Jesus He looked like the sun shined in its power. Noone can see God and live. So I guess He'll burn away the chaff in your life and purify you like bleach.

 

[MoreCoffee]

When John saw Jesus He looked like the sun shined in its power. Noone can see God and live. So I guess He'll burn away the chaff in your life and purify you like bleach.

The scriptures say 1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Obviously seeing a vision is not the same as seeing God and even seeing Jesus with his glory is not the same as seeing God despite Jesus being God manifest in the flesh. God veiled his glory in the flesh of Jesus Christ and visions are clearly not seeing with the eyes what is present in reality. Isaiah saw God in a vision

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the LORD sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple.​

yet Isaiah survived the vision but Moses did not see God as God passed by and yet Moses was irradiated by the experience so much that the people could not bear to look at him until the glory faded

Exodus 34:6-7 The LORD passed before him, and proclaimed, 'The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for the thousandth generation, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, yet by no means clearing the guilty, but visiting the iniquity of the parents upon the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.' ... Exodus 34:29-35 Moses came down from Mount Sinai. As he came down from the mountain with the two tablets of the covenant in his hand, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God. 30 When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, the skin of his face was shining, and they were afraid to come near him. 31 But Moses called to them; and Aaron and all the leaders of the congregation returned to him, and Moses spoke with them. 32 Afterwards all the Israelites came near, and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him on Mount Sinai. 33 When Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil on his face; 34 but whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he would take the veil off, until he came out; and when he came out, and told the Israelites what he had been commanded, 35 the Israelites would see the face of Moses, that the skin of his face was shining; and Moses would put the veil on his face again, until he went in to speak with him.​

 

[Imalive]

The scriptures say 1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Obviously seeing a vision is not the same as seeing God and even seeing Jesus with his glory is not the same as seeing God despite Jesus being God manifest in the flesh. God veiled his glory in the flesh of Jesus Christ and visions are clearly not seeing with the eyes what is present in reality. Isaiah saw God in a vision

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the LORD sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple.​

yet Isaiah survived the vision but Moses did not see God as God passed by and yet Moses was irradiated by the experience so much that the people could not bear to look at him until the glory faded

Exodus 34:6-7 The LORD passed before him, and proclaimed, 'The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for the thousandth generation, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, yet by no means clearing the guilty, but visiting the iniquity of the parents upon the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.' ... Exodus 34:29-35 Moses came down from Mount Sinai. As he came down from the mountain with the two tablets of the covenant in his hand, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God. 30 When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, the skin of his face was shining, and they were afraid to come near him. 31 But Moses called to them; and Aaron and all the leaders of the congregation returned to him, and Moses spoke with them. 32 Afterwards all the Israelites came near, and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him on Mount Sinai. 33 When Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil on his face; 34 but whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he would take the veil off, until he came out; and when he came out, and told the Israelites what he had been commanded, 35 the Israelites would see the face of Moses, that the skin of his face was shining; and Moses would put the veil on his face again, until he went in to speak with him.​

Yes but in the end we will see Him as He is and I guess that'll burn away any chaff and it's better to let Him get rid of it in this life.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes but in the end we will see Him as He is and I guess that'll burn away any chaff and it's better to let Him get rid of it in this life.

IN the resurrection the blessed saints will see God face to face but that is not in this life.

 

[Andrew]

The scriptures say 1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Obviously seeing a vision is not the same as seeing God and even seeing Jesus with his glory is not the same as seeing God despite Jesus being God manifest in the flesh. God veiled his glory in the flesh of Jesus Christ and visions are clearly not seeing with the eyes what is present in reality. Isaiah saw God in a vision

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the LORD sitting on a throne, high and lofty; and the hem of his robe filled the temple.​

yet Isaiah survived the vision but Moses did not see God as God passed by and yet Moses was irradiated by the experience so much that the people could not bear to look at him until the glory faded

Exodus 34:6-7 The LORD passed before him, and proclaimed, 'The LORD, the LORD, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, 7 keeping steadfast love for the thousandth generation, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, yet by no means clearing the guilty, but visiting the iniquity of the parents upon the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.' ... Exodus 34:29-35 Moses came down from Mount Sinai. As he came down from the mountain with the two tablets of the covenant in his hand, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God. 30 When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, the skin of his face was shining, and they were afraid to come near him. 31 But Moses called to them; and Aaron and all the leaders of the congregation returned to him, and Moses spoke with them. 32 Afterwards all the Israelites came near, and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him on Mount Sinai. 33 When Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil on his face; 34 but whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he would take the veil off, until he came out; and when he came out, and told the Israelites what he had been commanded, 35 the Israelites would see the face of Moses, that the skin of his face was shining; and Moses would put the veil on his face again, until he went in to speak with him.​

.

 

[Andrew]

deep

 

[MennoSota]

When John saw Jesus He looked like the sun shined in its power. Noone can see God and live. So I guess He'll burn away the chaff in your life and purify you like bleach.

Gideon saw God and lived. Read it in Judges. God is gracious to those whom he chooses to be gracious.

 

[Imalive]

Gideon saw God and lived. Read it in Judges. God is gracious to those whom he chooses to be gracious.

No man can see God and live. That was Jesus.

 

[MennoSota]

deep

Biblical...
Romans 7
"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"
Paul wrote this as a Christian. Checkmate.

 

[MennoSota]

No man can see God and live. That was Jesus.

Judges 6:22-23
[22]When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the lord, he cried out, “Oh, Sovereign lord, I’m doomed! I have seen the angel of the lord face to face!”
[23]“It is all right,” the lord replied. “Do not be afraid. You will not die.”

 

[Imalive]

Judges 6:22-23
[22]When Gideon realized that it was the angel of the lord, he cried out, “Oh, Sovereign lord, I’m doomed! I have seen the angel of the lord face to face!”
[23]“It is all right,” the lord replied. “Do not be afraid. You will not die.”

Yes cause it was Jesus. Stephen saw the glory of the Lord. God always showed Himself to man as Jesus. Theres 2 Jehovahs w Abraham, one he was talking to and one in heaven. I showed that to a jw but he didnt get it. Its in his jw bible.

 

[MoreCoffee]

.

That guy should try dentist as is word of the week. He needs one
:smirk:

 

[MoreCoffee]

Gideon saw God and lived. Read it in Judges. God is gracious to those whom he chooses to be gracious.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Biblical...
Romans 7
"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"
Paul wrote this as a Christian. Checkmate.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Bible checkmates opinion.

 

[MennoSota]

Yes cause it was Jesus. Stephen saw the glory of the Lord. God always showed Himself to man as Jesus. Theres 2 Jehovahs w Abraham, one he was talking to and one in heaven. I showed that to a jw but he didnt get it. Its in his jw bible.

Right, so you can see God and live.

 

[Andrew]

Biblical...
Romans 7
"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"
Paul wrote this as a Christian. Checkmate.

Jesus delivered him but the flesh has death in it and is dead to the law of God, the mind can be obedient to the law of God but due to flesh we must repent every sin it causes. I like the way he pointed to himself as a man struggling in perfection but no judging others like you did, he said it better because he is Paul haha.
Take the meme in honor I thought it would look funny, im sorry

 

[Imalive]

Thats how Michael Brown explains the Trinity to Jews, from the O.T. He said in synagogues they never read: God walked in Eden, but the Memra of the Lord.

https://books.google.nl/books?id=hD...age&q=michael brown memra of the lord&f=false

 

[Imalive]

Right, so you can see God and live.

oh then God must have been mistaken.

 

[MennoSota]

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God lives in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Bible checkmates opinion.

LOL, 1 John 4:12 has nothing to do with our human condition. Care to try again or just accept the checkmate?!