Church Hiring? Does the process need a Change?

[J.Money]

This is specifically aimed at those who are on a church staff or in ministry of some sort.

I have found that the majority of staff positions and the hiring process in the church seems to be political. It seems as if those who have an advantage for the position are those who have connections. Is this wrong?

A little background info; I've applied to nearly 30 churches for a ministry job. I have some experience, a degree in youth ministry and preaching from a reputable school, and currently working on a Master's of Divinity. Out of those churches I've gotten 2 interviews and no job offers.

The main question I want to discuss is about what churches really consider when hiring a new ministry candidate. Are my credentials not good enough? Why does it seem like they don't take the time to get to know the candidate (me)?

I would appreciate all thoughts and advice, as well as your take on how churches hire candidates and if the process needs a change.

Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from everyone!

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[tango]

That's an interesting question.

Before I answer, just a side note, your faith icon says you're agnostic but from the tone of the post I'm going to guess that's wrong. If you let us know what you'd like it to be one of the admins can change it for you.

It does sometimes seem as if churches create jobs, particularly at the lower end of the pay scale, such that they are almost immediately filled by members of the congregation. Mrs Jones needs some extra money and the church could do with more regular cleaning and the next thing you know Mrs Jones is working as a part time cleaner for $12/hour. Some might say the system is rigged, others might say it's nothing more than the people who are closest are the first to hear, and in that regard it's really little different to the person who applies for work "on spec" and fills the vacancy before it gets advertised.

As far as ministry positions go one would expect a more thorough process. In that regard those who are already known to the church clearly have an advantage because the church already knows them, knows where they stand on key issues (where "key issues" is whatever is important to the church), maybe knows something of their teaching and so on. If you approach as an unknown you may be a better qualified candidate but if the church needs somebody fairly quickly and they already have someone in the congregation who is a perfect fit, it's perhaps unsurprising they don't look much further. I don't think I'd say it was political, purely practical.

If you needed a new roof and your next door neighbor was a roofer who you knew did very good work at a reasonable price, would you just give him the job or would you invite two or three others to come in and quote, and hope they were as good?

 

[Josiah]

IMO,


IF the position is regarded as a "job" then it's perfectly acceptable to handle this like any other job - identical to fulling a position by the local school district to be a custodian. Let people know the job is available and the min. requirements. People apply with the usual information. People are interviewed. There are "winners" and "losers" (so yeah, it's political). Churches (especially larger ones) have employees filling jobs.


IF the position is regarding as a Divine Call to a Divine Church Office (Pastor, for example) then it's a whole other enchilada. The point is to try to determine GOD'S choice, the one whom GOD has appointed. Each denomination has it's own process for that, and usually a parish of that denomination is mandated to follow that protocol. I could briefly relate the process in my denomination (the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod) but that might be entirely irrelevant in yours.


- Josiah

 

[Albion]

Yes. It is understandable that any church would hire from people who belong to that denomination. So if you are attempting to be hired by a non-denominational congregation and are yourself an agnostic or even something along those lines, you have automatically confined your prospects to a rather small number of 'possibles.' Of course, we do not know which churches or kinds of churches you have applied to without success.

I also feel (from some observation) that the position of Youth Pastor is a very sensitive one where first-hand knowledge of the candidate ranks higher than a degree.

 

[NewCreation435]

the reason I think that sometimes churches hire from within is that they know the person and they know what to expect. The churches knows what they are getting and there is a certain level of trust that has been built up. Churches are like families with different family members playing roles. I really can't blame a church from hiring within if the person is a good fit. there are a lot of people in ministry these days that aren't very professional and the church might be a little gun shy about picking someone they don't know.

I would add that the hiring process is different for different denominations. From 18 years of age until very recently I would have considered myself Baptist. And that is very much a political process. Some other denominationsl may be different.

Welcome to the forum

 

[Josiah]

I shared elsewhere that I had to fire a church member from a church job...... Not fun..... complicated because he is a church member (who now isn't coming to church).

I wonder if there are some practical reasons to not hire church members for church jobs.....

 

[NewCreation435]

I shared elsewhere that I had to fire a church member from a church job...... Not fun..... complicated because he is a church member (who now isn't coming to church).

I wonder if there are some practical reasons to not hire church members for church jobs.....

especially in a small church I would think so where a few families run the church and all the programs that go on in it. You don't want them quitting all their jobs suddenly. That actually happened to me one time. I made the wrong person mad and he quit all his positions effective immediately without notice. Then when we got along okay without him he suddenly wanted to come back

 

[Imalive]

Yes. It is understandable that any church would hire from people who belong to that denomination. So if you are attempting to be hired by a non-denominational congregation and are yourself an agnostic or even something along those lines, you have automatically confined your prospects to a rather small number of 'possibles.' Of course, we do not know which churches or kinds of churches you have applied to without success.

I also feel (from some observation) that the position of Youth Pastor is a very sensitive one where first-hand knowledge of the candidate ranks higher than a degree.

If you just want to clean up the church I bet they don't mind if you're agnostic.
Lol once I was in a church and they rented the building, a school, but you then also got that guy after the service who worked for the school and he was like: hey it's my day off, you paid til 1 o'clock, out you go. Hurry up w your chit chatting and drinking coffee. Hahahahahahaha oh my he was so rude, ppl were drinking and he'd just grab their table and put it away.

 

[Albion]

I wouldn't doubt what you wrote there, but in my post I was only commenting on ministerial positions, not janitor or something else.

 

[J.Money]

To clarify, I am not agnostic, the admin let me know about some glitch when I registered. I am a Christian, and as pointed out (some have mentioned already) my degree is in youth ministry and preaching. I come from a non-denominational background (the Stone-Campbell movement or Restoration Movement if that is of any help).

I appreciate the responses so far. I would like to ask however, if a candidate has gone to college for a degree in ministry and pursuing Masters work related to Ministry, shouldn't that be of interest to a church? I understand knowing people and their beliefs is important, but I would think if they really take hiring a candidate seriously they would at least consider and "outsider" that has the qualifications they're looking for.

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[NewCreation435]

To clarify, I am not agnostic, the admin let me know about some glitch when I registered. I am a Christian, and as pointed out (some have mentioned already) my degree is in youth ministry and preaching. I come from a non-denominational background (the Stone-Campbell movement or Restoration Movement if that is of any help).

I appreciate the responses so far. I would like to ask however, if a candidate has gone to college for a degree in ministry and pursuing Masters work related to Ministry, shouldn't that be of interest to a church? I understand knowing people and their beliefs is important, but I would think if they really take hiring a candidate seriously they would at least consider and "outsider" that has the qualifications they're looking for.

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It largely depends on what type of church you are applying to and the size of the church at least from what I have seen. The larger or less rural churches are probably more often open to the more educated and trained minister. The more rural and less educated the congregation the less likely they are to think education is important. I may be bias, but that is what I have seen.

I would add that I don't know if you are putting your references on your resume or give it to them later. If they are included I would call my references and see if anyone has called them. let them know they are on the resume and remind them of what you have done and training you have received. That way, they are more prepared to answer questions.

 

[J.Money]

It largely depends on what type of church you are applying to and the size of the church at least from what I have seen. The larger or less rural churches are probably more often open to the more educated and trained minister. The more rural and less educated the congregation the less likely they are to think education is important. I may be bias, but that is what I have seen.

That's interesting. I agree with you about larger churches, but I would have thought smaller churches would be open to those trained in ministry. Thanks for the response.


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[NewCreation435]

That's interesting. I agree with you about larger churches, but I would have thought smaller churches would be open to those trained in ministry. Thanks for the response.


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Having had my share of experiences in the church I would also add to be careful not just to take a position without praying about it quite a bit. Some churches are extremely dysfunctional and tear down ministers for the fun of it. Be careful and talk to people associated with the church and learn their reputation. Some churches don't deserve you.

 

[J.Money]

Having had my share of experiences in the church I would also add to be careful not just to take a position without praying about it quite a bit. Some churches are extremely dysfunctional and tear down ministers for the fun of it. Be careful and talk to people associated with the church and learn their reputation. Some churches don't deserve you.

Of course! I always ask about what the current situation is like, why the last minister left, if the leadership will work with a young minister and help be a mentor. And I pray for all the churches considering my applications that they find the right candidate but also if I were to be offered a job, I'd need time to consider all the factors involved.

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[J.Money]

Of course! I always ask about what the current situation is like, why the last monster left, if the leadership will work with a young minister and help be a mentor. And I pray for all the churches considering my applications that they find the right candidate but also if I were to be offered a job, I'd need time to consider all the factors involved.

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Minister** not monster lol

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[MoreCoffee]

Minister** not monster lol

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Do you have a calling for a pastoral ministry?

 

[J.Money]

Do you have a calling for a pastoral ministry?

Yes, I thought that was implied by my education, I guess I could have made it more clear. I've always felt like ministry is somewhere I should be. Whether that be leading music, leading youth, pastoral care, preaching.

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[Tigger]

As others have already touched on I'll clarify that most if not all positions 'especially paid' are covered under the congregations bi-laws. And even though they have already but picked their candidates if not already twiddled down to just a couple of persons, they are still required to post those positions at least within the church if not also have a public listing of those positions.
In fact the whole process is typically outlined to how long the job must be listed and who and how many are required to be present to make the choice offical.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Yes, I thought that was implied by my education, I guess I could have made it more clear. I've always felt like ministry is somewhere I should be. Whether that be leading music, leading youth, pastoral care, preaching.

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Some people obtain a Master's degree in divinity and go on to a PhD so that they can become teachers in university or in the divinity colleges of their denomination - that's why I asked.

 

[J.Money]

Some people obtain a Master's degree in divinity and go on to a PhD so that they can become teachers in university or in the divinity colleges of their denomination - that's why I asked.

Ok I understand. Yes a lot of people pursue further education, I've even dabbled with the idea of teaching, and as much fun as the classroom can be, the church is my calling

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