Church Hiring? Does the process need a Change?

[J.Money]

As others have already touched on I'll clarify that most if not all positions 'especially paid' are covered under the congregations bi-laws. And even though they have already but picked their candidates if not already twiddled down to just a couple of persons, they are still required to post those positions at least within the church if not also have a public listing of those positions.
In fact the whole process is typically outlined to how long the job must be listed and who and how many are required to be present to make the choice offical.

Do you think that should be changed?

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[tango]

especially in a small church I would think so where a few families run the church and all the programs that go on in it. You don't want them quitting all their jobs suddenly. That actually happened to me one time. I made the wrong person mad and he quit all his positions effective immediately without notice. Then when we got along okay without him he suddenly wanted to come back

On the face of it this is a good reason to avoid having too many family ties within the administrative and central ministry parts of a church (I say central ministry to differentiate from the general minister that should exist between members anyway). The trouble is when you have a relatively small church in a small village, or even when you have a church in a populated area that happens to have multiple relatives attending, it's often hard to do much else.

If you've got a situation where the minister's son is an elder, another elder is closely related to the chairman of the trustees and also leads the band, the youth pastor is the grandson of an elder and so on, now if one person takes offense badly enough to leave you potentially find multiple fairly roles emptied at once. You can get by with an elder missing, the main pastor can maybe double as youth pastor for a time at least, and the chances are someone else in the band could lead the band, but it's far from a desirable situation. Where roles like specific youth workers are involved it's possible that youth work has to all but shut down for a time, if you badly upset someone who turns out to be the brother of the guy who runs the evening group for the teenagers and whose wife runs the evening group for the 9-13s. It's often hard enough to get people to volunteer to help with youth groups, let alone lead them. The band can function if it's missing a singer but things like youth classes or children's church can't operate with nobody to lead them.

 

[Tigger]

Do you think that should be changed?

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I simply don't know how you would change it. The bi-laws were put in place to keep things transparent and fair. But we humans are very tribal and fickle and those things are hard to prove in order to validate someone's claim of injustice.

 

[J.Money]

I simply don't know how you would change it. The bi-laws were put in place to keep things transparent and fair. But we humans are very tribal and fickle and those things are hard to prove in order to validate someone's claim of injustice.

If in fact it is the case that churches already have candidates in mind, and then post the job application online or to University websites because they have to, that seems pointless. As someone wanting to be in ministry I take that as a slap in the face. It doesn't seem productive to already have candidates picked then post a ministry opening if there's no chance for the new people (like me) to apply.

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[Albion]

Well, you don't know if that's the case. With other businesses, etc. there often is someone in mind, but the employer is still willing to hear from outside applicants on the chance that one of them would turn out to be too good to pass up.

 

[Tigger]

If in fact it is the case that churches already have candidates in mind, and then post the job application online or to University websites because they have to, that seems pointless. As someone wanting to be in ministry I take that as a slap in the face. It doesn't seem productive to already have candidates picked then post a ministry opening if there's no chance for the new people (like me) to apply.

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And I would guess it would be much more likely in circumstances concerning jobs like stated in other posts such as janitor, maintenance, lawn care...

I would also 'guess' ministerial positions open in non-denom congregations might average higher hiring from within the ranks of the congregation than like Anglican or Lutheran do due to their more rigorous training process but than again I think someone else has already touched on this angle.

 

[tango]

If in fact it is the case that churches already have candidates in mind, and then post the job application online or to University websites because they have to, that seems pointless. As someone wanting to be in ministry I take that as a slap in the face. It doesn't seem productive to already have candidates picked then post a ministry opening if there's no chance for the new people (like me) to apply.

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I'd agree there's little point in posting a vacancy notice unless there actually is a vacancy that doesn't already have a candidate ready to fill it. As you say it's a waste of everybody's time. That said you never know whether the vacancy already had a candidate lined up and the listing was nothing more than a formal exercise in box-ticking, the vacancy had a credible candidate and the listing was to see if there was a better candidate out there, or the vacancy was genuine and the church was looking for someone to fill it.

In a situation of secular employment it's often easy to see who is the best qualified candidate but even there's a degree of subjectivity - sometimes the person most qualified on paper lacks some soft skill that is critical or maybe their face just doesn't fit. In a ministry type situation it can be more subjective still because paper qualifications are only half the story. To paraphrase 1Co 13, if you've got an armful of paper qualifications but lack love you're not going to go very far in ministry. (Just to be clear, I'm not trying to say that you as an individual lack love, just giving an example of how paper qualifications are only part of the picture).

 

[J.Money]

I'd agree there's little point in posting a vacancy notice unless there actually is a vacancy that doesn't already have a candidate ready to fill it. As you say it's a waste of everybody's time. That said you never know whether the vacancy already had a candidate lined up and the listing was nothing more than a formal exercise in box-ticking, the vacancy had a credible candidate and the listing was to see if there was a better candidate out there, or the vacancy was genuine and the church was looking for someone to fill it.

In a situation of secular employment it's often easy to see who is the best qualified candidate but even there's a degree of subjectivity - sometimes the person most qualified on paper lacks some soft skill that is critical or maybe their face just doesn't fit. In a ministry type situation it can be more subjective still because paper qualifications are only half the story. To paraphrase 1Co 13, if you've got an armful of paper qualifications but lack love you're not going to go very far in ministry. (Just to be clear, I'm not trying to say that you as an individual lack love, just giving an example of how paper qualifications are only part of the picture).

I agree with you! I want the church to find a candidate who's heart is in the right place. However, it seems like 95% of the churches I've applied to take no effort to get to know my heart and that's where I feel confused. Hardly any of them reach out to get to know me more. They look at my resume and that's it, I never hear from them again.

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[Lamb]

I agree with you! I want the church to find a candidate who's heart is in the right place. However, it seems like 95% of the churches I've applied to take no effort to get to know my heart and that's where I feel confused. Hardly any of them reach out to get to know me more. They look at my resume and that's it, I never hear from them again.

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God's timing isn't always what we want. Keep praying and studying.

 

[Albion]

They look at my resume and that's it, I never hear from them again.

Quite possibly, there's something on the resume that they see as the *kiss of death.* What do you suppose it (or they) could be?

 

[Imalive]

This is specifically aimed at those who are on a church staff or in ministry of some sort.

I have found that the majority of staff positions and the hiring process in the church seems to be political. It seems as if those who have an advantage for the position are those who have connections. Is this wrong?

A little background info; I've applied to nearly 30 churches for a ministry job. I have some experience, a degree in youth ministry and preaching from a reputable school, and currently working on a Master's of Divinity. Out of those churches I've gotten 2 interviews and no job offers.

The main question I want to discuss is about what churches really consider when hiring a new ministry candidate. Are my credentials not good enough? Why does it seem like they don't take the time to get to know the candidate (me)?

I would appreciate all thoughts and advice, as well as your take on how churches hire candidates and if the process needs a change.

Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from everyone!

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Ministry job?
No new plant. Paul says somewhere dont let it be a new plant, which is translated as new believer, but they used that text in our church: new plant. A new believer is not wise to let minister in your church, but neither is someone you don't know. First they didnt bother, but the church splits were getting a bit too much. Saw it all the time. Pastor gets tired of having to do everything alone. Hey handy! Someone wants to help. Church split. Whoop half of the ppl follow the new leader.

 

[tango]

I agree with you! I want the church to find a candidate who's heart is in the right place. However, it seems like 95% of the churches I've applied to take no effort to get to know my heart and that's where I feel confused. Hardly any of them reach out to get to know me more. They look at my resume and that's it, I never hear from them again.

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Naturally I can only speculate as to why that might be. Assuming there isn't anything on your resume that would be a red flag for a church, there are all sorts of reasons it might be. If they need someone quickly it may be that a known local person can bypass the whole "getting to know you" stage because they are already well known to the church. It's possible they look at your resume and assume you're going to want more money than they have available, particularly when people already associated with a church may be willing to do the work on a voluntary basis or even for a lower wage than they figure you might want.

It's also possible that your calling is somewhere else, maybe only for a time, and God isn't opening doors because you aren't pushing the right doors.

 

[Imalive]

Naturally I can only speculate as to why that might be. Assuming there isn't anything on your resume that would be a red flag for a church, there are all sorts of reasons it might be. If they need someone quickly it may be that a known local person can bypass the whole "getting to know you" stage because they are already well known to the church. It's possible they look at your resume and assume you're going to want more money than they have available, particularly when people already associated with a church may be willing to do the work on a voluntary basis or even for a lower wage than they figure you might want.

It's also possible that your calling is somewhere else, maybe only for a time, and God isn't opening doors because you aren't pushing the right doors.

Yes that last sentence. Ask God where He wants you to go and what He wants you to do. Maybe He wants you to start something yourself. Doesnt pay very well though.

 

[J.Money]

Quite possibly, there's something on the resume that they see as the *kiss of death.* What do you suppose it (or they) could be?

Honestly I have no clue, on my resume I have my education listed, my ministry experience this far, and hobbies. Nothing listed should be seen as a kiss of death in my opinion, unless they think music and photography are Satan's hobbies

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[IACOBVS]

Honestly I have no clue, on my resume I have my education listed, my ministry experience this far, and hobbies. Nothing listed should be seen as a kiss of death in my opinion, unless they think music and photography are Satan's hobbies

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If there is nothing on your resume even hinting at your denomination or denominational bent (even if you are non-denominational). you may be presenting yourself as too generic for most churches. Even so-called non-denominational churches have very specific beliefs; that's why they're non-denominational, and not part of some larger organisation.

 

[J.Money]

If there is nothing on your resume even hinting at your denomination or denominational bent (even if you are non-denominational). you may be presenting yourself as too generic for most churches. Even so-called non-denominational churches have very specific beliefs; that's why they're non-denominational, and not part of some larger organisation.

The schools I've gone too are affiliated with non-denominational churches in the restoration movement. I would assume most churches I've applied to would know that, since their jobs are listed on the websites of the schools.

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[MennoSota]

When we are talking about being a shepherd to the sheep we need to understand that it's not about making a livable wage. There are many many rural and inner-city church opportunities, but you won't earn enough from the tithes of the congregation. You will need to live by faith, trusting that God will provide your needs.
My father spent 20 years preaching in a church that paid him $50 per month. He worked other jobs and accepted food provisions from kind people in order to live. We were poor, but God provided all our needs. My father was a faithful shepherd.
If you are willing to go anywhere, God will have a congregation for you to lead.
As for cronyism. Yes, it exists in churches just as it exists in small companies, local public jobs and the school systems. It is an unfortunate, worldly part of the church in any denomination.
That being said. God is Sovereign. He will ordain you to ministry at his choosing, according to his plan. God may have you wait, and wait, and wait before he ordains you to lead. There may be important lessons you have yet to learn before God decides you are ready. This calling to shepherd is very sacred and important. Seeing it as a profession is a dangerous thing. Seeing it as a holy, ordination given by God at his time and for his glory is very important.
Until God opens the way, keep doing what you are doing. God has tasks for you today and that should be good enough.

 

[Imalive]

Oh you're 24. Maybe they think you're too young. Wouldnt surprise me. Just like w a regular job. Be 30 or 40 and have years of experience.

 

[J.Money]

Oh you're 24. Maybe they think you're too young. Wouldnt surprise me. Just like w a regular job. Be 30 or 40 and have years of experience.

That's my issue. I can't get experience if I don't have a job. I can't get a job without a degree. It's a paradox

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[tango]

That's my issue. I can't get experience if I don't have a job. I can't get a job without a degree. It's a paradox

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Be thankful it's not the private sector, particularly IT, where it's not unheard for a job description to say it requires 5 years of experience of a programming language that has only been available for 2 years.

More seriously, don't regard a ministry as a job. If God wants you in a particular ministry it will happen, with or without experience. Speaking of experience, can you gain experience by doing some form of ministry within a church on a voluntary basis?