The Lutheran version of the Rosary

[MennoSota]

Sooo, although the discussion took off before you replied to my post #12, you WERE speaking of the Catholic rosary and not the various other prayer bead sets that have been mentioned on this thread. None of these others is a devotion directed to anyone but God himself.

What possible benefit comes from stroking a few beads? It seems like you might as well rub an idols head and call for assistance.
My point is that there is zero biblical support for such actions. They are entirely man-made methods in an attempt to focus the mind.
Sola Scriptura

 

[MoreCoffee]

Not one of those verses talks about praying to the saints. Secondly, the apocryphal books are not inspired. They were included only because of politics, not because they met any criterion of inspiration. I will reject any quotation from non-inspired texts.

You said "conversion" was not in the bible so I showed you where it is in the bible. You said that invoking the saints is not in the bible so I showed you where invoking the angels and heavenly hosts is in the bible (the saints are among the hosts of heaven). You said that prayer for the dead was not in the bible and I showed you where it is in the bible. You do not accept some of the books that I accept as biblical. Okay, But the fact remains that these things are in fact in my bible even if somebody removed them from yours. The Lutheran rosary invokes the Lord Jesus Christ and God so you can't be objecting because the saints or Mary is invoked in it. The Catholic rosary invokes Mary asking that she pray for us to the Lord our God if that upsets you then do not use a Catholic rosary. Anglicans and others may have beads for various reasons in their prayers but they are not idols they are just beads.

 

[Albion]

What possible benefit comes from stroking a few beads? It seems like you might as well rub an idols head and call for assistance.

Strictly speaking, none. And the saying of the rosary does not involve any stroking.

The origin of the rosary appears to go back to the first Millennium in church history after a number of communities of monks had been established. They, as we all know, were to work and engage in frequent prayer. Laypersons (mainly farmers at that time) sought to participate in that regimen too, but, being illiterate, they were advised by the monks to participate in principle without knowing all the prayers used by the monks .

Specifically, the suggestion was to say the Lords Prayer a certain number of times, keeping count with pebbles. In awhile, the requisite number of pebbles were strung together in a line. Over time, other prayers were included, special intentions and meditations were assigned, and so forth, and the shape was changed. But the Catholic rosary started as a counting device, that's all, and that is what the Lutheran and Anglican sets are still. None is intended to be used in order to "focus the mind", as you suggested.

 

[MennoSota]

You said "conversion" was not in the bible so I showed you where it is in the bible. You said that invoking the saints is not in the bible so I showed you where invoking the angels and heavenly hosts is in the bible (the saints are among the hosts of heaven). You said that prayer for the dead was not in the bible and I showed you where it is in the bible. You do not accept some of the books that I accept as biblical. Okay, But the fact remains that these things are in fact in my bible even if somebody removed them from yours. The Lutheran rosary invokes the Lord Jesus Christ and God so you can't be objecting because the saints or Mary is invoked in it. The Catholic rosary invokes Mary asking that she pray for us to the Lord our God if that upsets you then do not use a Catholic rosary. Anglicans and others may have beads for various reasons in their prayers but they are not idols they are just beads.

MoreCoffee, you did no such thing.
You picked verses that have zero connection and then claim they have a connection. You are using eisegesis and forcing a doctrine on a text out of context. Try exegeting the verses in their context and you will see how mistaken you are in claiming those verses as a prooftext. This is a common fallacy of the RC and its congregants. It's the equivalency of quoting "Jesus wept" in order to prove how happy Jesus was.

Mary cannot be invoked. There is zero texts in the Bible to support such a statement. It's the same thing when people claim Mary was a perpetual virgin. There is zero proof, just an empty proclamation. In fact, if Mary was a perpetual virgin, the Joseph was a polygamist or a sexual philanderer who mistreated Mary. That is absurd. No. The only option is that Mary and Joseph had a God ordained, healthy, sex life resulting in more children.

 

[MennoSota]

Strictly speaking, none. And the saying of the rosary does not involve any stroking.

The origin of the rosary appears to go back to the first Millennium in church history after a number of communities of monks had been established. They, as we all know, were to work and engage in frequent prayer. Laypersons (mainly farmers at that time) sought to participate in that regimen too, but, being illiterate, they were advised by the monks to participate in principle without knowing all the prayers used by the monks .

Specifically, the suggestion was to say the Lords Prayer a certain number of times, keeping count with pebbles. In awhile, the requisite number of pebbles were strung together in a line. Over time, other prayers were included, special intentions and meditations were assigned, and so forth, and the shape was changed. But the Catholic rosary started as a counting device, that's all, and that is what the Lutheran and Anglican sets are still. None is intended to be used in order to "focus the mind", as you suggested.

Do you see how the rosary is equivalent to Muslims doing their obigatory prayers to Mecca? Both are artificial regiments attempting to make one holy via a ritual.

 

[Albion]

Do you see how the rosary is equivalent to Muslims doing their obigatory prayers to Mecca? Both are artificial regiments attempting to make one holy via a ritual.

It's not the equivalent in the least; and it is not believed by users that praying the rosary makes them holy.

If you have other questions or thoughts on this subject, however, please ask. I don't want you to think that I'm harrumpfing anything and everything you say about this. I'm not a user of the (Catholic) rosary myself, but that doesn't mean that every reservation that folks who aren't very familiar with the rosary bring up is necessarily going to be valid.

 

[Josiah]

The current, modern ROMAN CATHOLIC Rosary.... http://www.dummies.com/religion/christianity/catholicism/how-to-pray-the-rosary/

I don't have HUGE problems here.... Probably most the "Mary pray for us now and at the moment of our death" - not because I'm against prayer or even Mary praying but that it MIGHT seem to give Mary a role in justification that She doesn't have. As a Protestant, I just feel that Mary is getting too much attention here, but while I (like all Lutherans) would word a little bit of this differently, I don't really regard any of it as heretical.

A rosary is just a tool..... nothing holy or special about it as a thing..... it is just a way to organize our personal devotion time, a time that overwhelmingly is focused on Bible reading and the Lord's Prayer and Ecumenical Creed. I fail to see why any Protestant is could be opposed to personal devotions, Bible reading, the Lord's Prayer or the Creed. Or some tool to help with that (such as using a devotional guide or some schedule for Bible reading).

While the current, modern ROMAN CATHOLIC Rosary does get a lot of encouragement, it is optional. And lots of Catholics never use it. In my Catholic days, I very rarely did. A couple in my family do but the great majority don't.

IMO, this is ONE (of several) things some Protestants get all in a fuss about that..... well..... doesn't deserve it (although again, there IS cause for pause with the Hail Mary part of it which easily could be left out or changed). Complaints about how Catholics number the Commandments, how they refer to some clergy as "Father" - these are others in that group of things.

But of course, the discussion here is not about the modern, current ROMAN CATHOLIC Rosary but the several forms of Protestant ones.

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

The current, modern ROMAN CATHOLIC Rosary.... http://www.dummies.com/religion/christianity/catholicism/how-to-pray-the-rosary/

I don't have HUGE problems here.... Probably most the "Mary pray for us now and at the moment of our death" - not because I'm against prayer or even Mary praying but that it MIGHT seem to give Mary a role in justification that She doesn't have. As a Protestant, I just feel that Mary is getting too much attention here, but while I (like all Lutherans) would word a little bit of this differently, I don't really regard any of it as heretical.

A rosary is just a tool..... nothing holy or special about it as a thing..... it is just a way to organize our personal devotion time, a time that overwhelmingly is focused on Bible reading and the Lord's Prayer and Ecumenical Creed. I fail to see why any Protestant is could be opposed to personal devotions, Bible reading, the Lord's Prayer or the Creed. Or some tool to help with that (such as using a devotional guide or some schedule for Bible reading).

While the current, modern ROMAN CATHOLIC Rosary does get a lot of encouragement, it is optional. And lots of Catholics never use it. In my Catholic days, I very rarely did. A couple in my family do but the great majority don't.

IMO, this is ONE (of several) things some Protestants get all in a fuss about that..... well..... doesn't deserve it (although again, there IS cause for pause with the Hail Mary part of it which easily could be left out or changed). Complaints about how Catholics number the Commandments, how they refer to some clergy as "Father" - these are others in that group of things.

But of course, the discussion here is not about the modern, current ROMAN CATHOLIC Rosary but the several forms of Protestant ones.

Thanks for putting us back on track, Josiah and you're right. The topic under discussion is the Lutheran variant of the Rosary.

 

[Albion]

Thanks for putting us back on track, Josiah and you're right. The topic under discussion is the Lutheran variant of the Rosary.

I'm trying to think if there's anything more to say on this topic.

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

I'm trying to think if there's anything more to say on this topic.

I guess if there is, we could just talk about how we've personally benefited from the devotion. When I heard about the massacre in Las Vegas on Monday, I said the Lutheran Rosary, using the Joyful Mysteries, for the intentions of the victims and their families. As I was finishing up, I felt a deep peace in my own being, with the sense that God will look after them, here and hereafter. Jesus came to heal and to defeat the works of the Devil and He's still doing so. The holy, Christian and Apostolic Church is remarkably effective in doing God's work here on earth.

 

[Tigger]

I thoroughly enjoy reciting my personal version of the Lutheran Rosary. Some might classify me as High church Lutheran, others might label me as Evangelical Catholic but I think what most accurately defines my Christian perspective would be a hybrid Lutheran Orthodox. I actually look forward to meditating on the different events of Christ's ministry, from His incarnation to His ascension. I also do many of the events of the BVM from the annunciation, assumption and dare I say crowning her the queen of heaven and reciting the pre Trent Hail Mary, The Magnificant & Martin Luther’s Evangelical Praise of the Mother of God . *ducks nervously fearing the well aimed tomato*

 

[MoreCoffee]

I guess if there is, we could just talk about how we've personally benefited from the devotion. When I heard about the massacre in Las Vegas on Monday, I said the Lutheran Rosary, using the Joyful Mysteries, for the intentions of the victims and their families. As I was finishing up, I felt a deep peace in my own being, with the sense that God will look after them, here and hereafter. Jesus came to heal and to defeat the works of the Devil and He's still doing so. The holy, Christian and Apostolic Church is remarkably effective in doing God's work here on earth.

I rarely say the rosary. IN the past ten years I've said it once with an elderly friend (his name is John, he is 96 now I think and still going strong mentally and for the most part physically). We said it while waiting for the mass to start because we both arrived early (about 35 minutes early). I liked saying the rosary with John.

 

[johnpegasis7]

once I tried all 4 parts of the holy rosary, all mysteries, 3 times in a row, after each complete 4 parts I had a 30 minute break...
it took almost 8 hours
..
whoever succeeds even only 2x in a row, already feels the great light, but after three ..
but when I prayed the complete holy rosary 3 times in a row, it already created a state for me, it was like the opiates that Americans take... but without any subsequent bad states..
and that day when I slept, I had to visit the heavens, because then I experienced the most beautiful and intense dreams I've ever had... until then I had never been in such a "place" in a dream..
this is probably how the real world we are going to look like, there is complete peace and a nice atmosphere, music was playing in the background like in some game, everyone there was very friendly..