Blood Curse?

[Andrew]

I'm sorry you're not making sense.
Why be in a confusing pentacostal church where it's emotional with little theology?
What attracts you to such contradiction and confusion in your church?

No sir... This is confusion

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.



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[MennoSota]

Its full on Spirit, its praising the Spirit in the Spirit by the Spirit, it hits like an atomic bomb in our little hut. But DONT take MY word for it

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Test the spirit. Since there is confusion, it cannot be the Spirit of God, which means the spirit in your church is something else.

 

[MennoSota]

No sir... This is confusion

Athanasian Creed

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

42. and shall give account of their own works.

43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.



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That's not confusion, that's humans making a mess of things. Here's the creed from the Bible.

"Christ died for our sins, just as the scriptures said. He was buried, and was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the scriptures said."
~ 1 Corinthians 15:3-4

The Godhead is just accepted as fact. One being and three persons.

 

[Andrew]

Test the spirit. Since there is confusion, it cannot be the Spirit of God, which means the spirit in your church is something else.

What are talking about? There is no confusion in the church.

A guest speaker brought in a bunch of baggage from his Catholic priesthood studies, THAT which he spoke about concerning the doctrines of priesthood was confusing.

The church is simple, its love for your brother and praise to God, its repentance for the unrepented and rejoicing in the Spirit in Jesus name. Its healing the broken and praying for the lost. Its total liberty in Jesus name by his testimony and by Gods grace... How is this confusing?

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[MennoSota]

What are talking about? There is no confusion in the church.

A guest speaker brought in a bunch of baggage from his Catholic priesthood studies, THAT which he spoke about concerning the doctrines of priesthood was confusing.

The church is simple, its love for your brother and praise to God, its repentance for the unrepented and rejoicing in the Spirit in Jesus name. Its healing the broken and praying for the lost. Its total liberty in Jesus name by his testimony and by Gods grace... How is this confusing?

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Nothing confusing about your last post.
Everything confusing about why your church had a false teacher speak.

 

[Andrew]

Nothing confusing about your last post.
Everything confusing about why your church had a false teacher speak.

Ok now I get you.
Yeah I didnt really care for him bringing that confusing baggage into the church to make a point. I also didnt like him assuming a blood curse is on the Jews or had something to do with the holocaust, that makes God sound like allah...
Our local pastors are amazing thou, and Im not saying that the guest is a bad person but focus should be on God and no negativity should come in to his house of worship. The weirdness has left and peace still reigns in the church.
I didnt mean to offend anyone here, forgive me if I have. Im only projecting some of my concerns to a public forum as we should.

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[tango]

Well the revival was not completely lost, I personally did not agree with some of the teachings but his calling for revival was to bring Catholics in. So as I converted from Catholicism so shall others, unfortunately the only catholics I know are the elderly in which I feel no need to shake their faith near the end of their lives. If I came across a youth that is in sinful nature and are not interested in their Catholic faith or is confused by it I will call them in, which I have. So far three of my friends have joined the revival and stayed, one more is considering and more are converting from atheist to Christianity so the spirit IS moving in the community.
The man said some things that I feel was out of line but it didnt stop the fire of God from spreading among a few of my peers. I have noticed more seats being filled
The sermon today was excellent I saw no foul of it. This is a busy church as well so many teachings are not prepared but are still very good, they might slip from me sometimes but I must consider some patience for them. Attendees are expected to make it to every service if they can. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Sunday morning and Sunday evening. I can only make it Sunday mornings and once on the weekday.

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Attendees are expected to make it to every service? Really? That sounds awfully controlling to me. Three evenings a week and twice on Sunday is a pretty heavy expectation to put on anyone.

 

[tango]

What are talking about? There is no confusion in the church.

A guest speaker brought in a bunch of baggage from his Catholic priesthood studies, THAT which he spoke about concerning the doctrines of priesthood was confusing.

The church is simple, its love for your brother and praise to God, its repentance for the unrepented and rejoicing in the Spirit in Jesus name. Its healing the broken and praying for the lost. Its total liberty in Jesus name by his testimony and by Gods grace... How is this confusing?

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I must admit I'm still finding it confusing why things are called "revivals" when they seem to be little more than a regular succession of church services, and how a "revival" can feature theology that's so badly flawed. It seems odd to suggest that the Spirit of God would move so powerfully at the behest of a speaker who has things so badly wrong one wonders whether he's even talking about the same god.

This is reminding me at least a little of a teacher the bad church I described earlier latched onto. If you read his web site you'll see all sorts of things about prophetic words and miraculous healings but his teachings on the prophetic are so badly flawed I can only conclude I do not recognise the god of which he speaks. On that basis all I can conclude is that his teaching is sufficiently faulty it's safest to merely ignore anything he has to say, and whatever he is describing on his web site is probably nothing to do with God.

There's also not a whole lot of liberty if the leadership expects you to show up at times of their choosing. Does it really work to say you have total liberty but you are expected to attend the premises dictated by them five times a week?

 

[Andrew]

I must admit I'm still finding it confusing why things are called "revivals" when they seem to be little more than a regular succession of church services, and how a "revival" can feature theology that's so badly flawed. It seems odd to suggest that the Spirit of God would move so powerfully at the behest of a speaker who has things so badly wrong one wonders whether he's even talking about the same god.

This is reminding me at least a little of a teacher the bad church I described earlier latched onto. If you read his web site you'll see all sorts of things about prophetic words and miraculous healings but his teachings on the prophetic are so badly flawed I can only conclude I do not recognise the god of which he speaks. On that basis all I can conclude is that his teaching is sufficiently faulty it's safest to merely ignore anything he has to say, and whatever he is describing on his web site is probably nothing to do with God.

There's also not a whole lot of liberty if the leadership expects you to show up at times of their choosing. Does it really work to say you have total liberty but you are expected to attend the premises dictated by them five times a week?

No man that enters into the church can suppress the power of the Holy Ghost.
Also as many come in lost and completely broken some may need the church on a more regular basis, they encourage believers or regular members to come as to comfort them if they have time (usually an hour or so on weekdays and you can leave if you need to at any certain point). Keys are given to regulars as many spend much time at the alter as needed.
Did I say expected? I did mean encouraged, and thursday is another bible study usually a few people meet up at a persons house.
These people I see are transformed before my very eyes, towards the end of service these new comers are full of spirit, smiling ear to ear and praising God. These were once drunkards, suicidal, gang members, junkies, thieves, womanizers, lusters, racist, wife beaters etc... Now they are transformed and are living Holy lives, good marriages, back to work, charity in and outside the church, at peace and very very happy people. I am very pleased with this church indeed, words are the most powerful weapon of mankind, but The Word is out of this world. Love one another as Jesus has loved you.

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[tango]

No man that enters into the church can suppress the power of the Holy Ghost.

Why would anyone want to suppress the power of the Holy Ghost?

Also as many come in lost and completely broken some may need the church on a more regular basis, they encourage believers or regular members to come as to comfort them if they have time (usually an hour or so on weekdays and you can leave if you need to at any certain point). Keys are given to regulars as many spend much time at the alter as needed.

Why do they need to be at the altar? Can't God meet with them wherever they are? It's one thing to fellowship with other believers but the idea that we need to be in a specific place to meet with God sounds controlling, it has echoes of places like IHOP where interns are expected to spend certain amounts of time each week in the prayer rooms.

These people I see are transformed before my very eyes, towards the end of service these new comers are full of spirit, smiling ear to ear and praising God. These were once drunkards, suicidal, gang members, junkies, thieves, womanizers, lusters, racist, wife beaters etc... Now they are transformed and are living Holy lives, good marriages, back to work, charity in and outside the church, at peace and very very happy people. I am very pleased with this church indeed, words are the most powerful weapon of mankind, but The Word is out of this world. Love one another as Jesus has loved you.

If this is truly the case and these people continue to live holy lives then you could be on to a good thing. However, from some of the other things you've said about the church I'd still urge caution - even if only keeping an eye to make sure these people continue to attend and continue to live holy lives. If you read reports from places like IHOP in Kansas City a recurring theme is that interns go there on fire for God, lead lots of people into the "ministry" but many leave burned out. If you watch a single video or two of what goes on there you'd think it was all happy-clappy stuff (if you can stand the relentless repetition in what they call worship) but there are an alarming number of reports of what is little more than spiritual abuse going on there. I've never been there so can't say for sure just what is true and what is not, but having seen some of their faulty teaching and their bizarre concept of worship I'd give them a wide berth regardless of any positive stories that come out of the place.

Two people who helped point me towards God are a world-renowned atheist and a man who, by his own definition, is a false prophet. Hence I don't have a problem with the statement that something that points others towards God isn't necessarily holy.

 

[Imalive]

Attendees are expected to make it to every service? Really? That sounds awfully controlling to me. Three evenings a week and twice on Sunday is a pretty heavy expectation to put on anyone.

Controlling?
That sounds like revival.
If I go that much to a church it must be really great.
In Acts they daily came together.

 

[tango]

Controlling?
That sounds like revival.
If I go that much to a church it must be really great.
In Acts they daily came together.

There's a world of difference between going to church five times in a week because you enjoy it and going to church five times a week because it is expected of you.

 

[Andrew]

There's a world of difference between going to church five times in a week because you enjoy it and going to church five times a week because it is expected of you.

I go twice a week

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[MoreCoffee]

When I am able I go every day.

 

[MennoSota]

A lot of people living good lives are hell bound.
I am honestly shocked at the utter lack of bible knowledge in conjunction with the utter reliance on emotional experience.
Does anyone read their Bible and let it's living words immerse their soul?
Please tell me America isn't so biblically illiterate as it seems.

 

[Andrew]

A lot of people living good lives are hell bound.
I am honestly shocked at the utter lack of bible knowledge in conjunction with the utter reliance on emotional experience.
Does anyone read their Bible and let it's living words immerse their soul?
Please tell me America isn't so biblically illiterate as it seems.

What are going on about? Is emotion bad or something?
I read scripture everyday but im sorry if I get a little "emotional" when praising God.
Our prayer meetings may get a little "emotional" from time to time.
I get "emotional" often when reading scripture... I dont get you.
I dont care what you have seen or heard because you have not seen our heard the church I attend. These people are changed by the word of God and the grace of God.
I am shocked at your utter self righteous church bashing, are you damning my fellowship?

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[Andrew]

We dont have a pitty party at church if thats what you think.
We show love and charity for our lost brothers and sisters. We preach by the book, we preach the good news of salvation and we rejoice in the good news.
I used to believe that me alone with the book was enough, its selfish you need fellowship. Do you go to church? If you dont you should find one.

Had you even noticed that I posted this thread in response to a guy church bashing another church in my church? If its one thing I cant stand its christians on christians. Stop damning one another its horrible

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[NewCreation435]

A lot of people living good lives are hell bound.
I am honestly shocked at the utter lack of bible knowledge in conjunction with the utter reliance on emotional experience.
Does anyone read their Bible and let it's living words immerse their soul?
Please tell me America isn't so biblically illiterate as it seems.

I wonder how you would know that though? There are people in almost every denomination I have encountered that are biblically illiterate and many who are not. Ultimately that person isn't accountable to me, but to the Lord for their lack of preparation and devotion.

 

[MennoSota]

Observation, jsimms, observation

 

[Andrew]

Observation, jsimms, observation

Please elaborate, have you gone into these churches and observed?

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