Would you support taxing churches?

[Jazzy]

Why or why not?

 

[Lees]

Why or why not?

Yes and no.

Among a true God fearing people, nation, now days known as Christian, it was, is, common to have the priesthood or churches to be free from taxation. (Ezra 7:24) Thus in the early days of this country, the U.S., because it was truly a God fearing people, Churches were not taxed. So for that reason, I support the Church being free from taxation.

But....the U.S., the people, have become atheistic and secular. The power behind the government is evil and not good. Thus this government still allows the churches to be free from taxation, but it now uses it against the churches. If you are 5013c, you cannot voice a political opinion from the pulpit, else you will be threatened to have your tax exemption removed. If some queer wants to openly profess his queerhood and be part of your church, or an active pastor or teacher in your church, and you deny him, he can protest to the government of your wrongful treatment of him, and seek to have your 5013c status removed.

In other words, 5013c, is now leverage for the government to use against the Church. So, now, I would advise any new church, to not meet in any one particular place that they own. Or, if you want to have and own that particular place, pay the taxes.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

With all the community service and provisions that most congregations supply, I consider them to be equal to non-profits that don't get taxed.

 

[Albion]

Churches are treated the same as secular non-profit organizations, and it would be difficult if not impossible to tax the churches without taxing all non-profits.

 

[tango]

Why or why not?

We should be reducing taxation rather than increasing it.

If we can have nonprofits that don't pay taxes I don't see why churches should have to pay. If a church is clearly not meeing the guidelines for being a nonprofit it may be possible to make a case to tax an individual church but it would seem easier to just revoke their nonprofit status.

I suspect this kind of thing is driven by the more glaring examples of "prosperity churches". If the pastor can live in a 16,000 square foot mansion, drive a brand new Ferrari and own a private jet, all paid for by the church, it's easy to see why people ask questions about taxing the church. How to rein in the excesses *cough Joel Osteen cough* without wrecking the small country churches where the pastor takes an additional secular job to make ends meet is a trickier matter.

 

[Lees]

With all the community service and provisions that most congregations supply, I consider them to be equal to non-profits that don't get taxed.

My point is: government doesn't give you anything today. If you, a church, want to be 501c3 go ahead. But, get ready to tow the line when some queer objects to your rules. Or, when your pastor make a political statement and some liberal in your midst makes or files a grievance.

It is not a question of being 'equal'. It's a question of being used.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Churches are treated the same as secular non-profit organizations, and it would be difficult if not impossible to tax the churches without taxing all non-profits.

What I am saying, is that the churches should not file for 501c3. If you don't file, you will pay the taxes. When you pay the taxes, you run your church as you want to.

Lees

 

[Fritz Kobus]

What I am saying, is that the churches should not file for 501c3. If you don't file, you will pay the taxes. When you pay the taxes, you run your church as you want to.

Lees

Much wisdom here. I always found the tax deductions for parishioner's giving to be problematical as it can induce giving for a tax break instead of giving to give. I once gave to the church for tax break and later had regrets.

 

[Lees]

Much wisdom here. I always found the tax deductions for parishioner's giving to be problematical as it can induce giving for a tax break instead of giving to give. I once gave to the church for tax break and later had regrets.

That is true. Years ago after becoming a born again Christian, and a member of a Church, I would always give every week according to what I made.

The church made it known that all gifts were tax deductible and we were asked to pick up the forms to file for it. I never would. I didn't care to. That is not why I gave.

One Sunday morning, one of the deacons literally delivered their form to me and encouraged me to file for it. I never did. It just didn't appeal to me. It seemed to me that I should feel the cost.

Lees

 

[tango]

Maybe churches should hire financial engineers and set up offshore trading entities, bouncing money around endlessly so they can avoid paying taxes without having to jump through government hoops.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

The real problem is the tax system. Make that simple and most of these other problems will go away. It should be so simple (maybe like a sales tax) that nobody has to file tax forms. Also they should not take our money ahead of time.

One problem with sales tax is for example a car at 6% in Michigan. New car $20,000, tax $1200. Two years later car sold second hand for $15,000 (just pulling numbers out of my shoe), tax $900. Five years later car sold for $6000, tax $360. Seven years after that, car sold for $1000, tax $60. Total tax collected for same car: $2520. Not figuring the time value of money etc, it comes out to the state actually charged 12.6 percent tax, not the stated 6 percent on that car. Worse, the money used to buy the car was taxed before the car was bought, so in pre-tax wages, the car probably cost a total of $23,500.