Why was Mary necessary?

[George]

An argument I've heard quite often in Mariology because when people seem to honor Mary as the Mother of God, people say she was just a random woman selected. And if so, then many why did God need to use a random woman to reveal His Son?

 

[Lamb]

Random? I thought God chose her. In Luke the angel tells Mary that God found favor with her. Scriptures don't say why she was chosen.

 

[psalms 91]

Yes, Mary was chosen

 

[MoreCoffee]

It'd be hard to give birth without a mother. If the mother of Christ were called elizabeth then some people would be complaining "why was elizabeth necessary? "

 

[psalms 91]

I believe that mary was chosen and honored to bear the Christ child, where I have a problem is people praying to her and others that are not Christ. Does not the story of the great gulf teach anything? Whhile she should be looked on as special I dont think she should be worshiped and praying to someone other than God I think does that

 

[MoreCoffee]

I believe that mary was chosen and honored to bear the Christ child, where I have a problem is people praying to her and others that are not Christ. Does not the story of the great gulf teach anything? Whhile she should be looked on as special I dont think she should be worshiped and praying to someone other than God I think does that

If you don't want to pray to blessed Mary then don't. What other Christians do with their prayers is nobody's business but their own and God's.

 

[TurtleHare]

Is anything truly random concerning God and His plans for mankind's salvation? I never saw anything random in the bible and it was always deliberate and with a plan thought out before we were even around.

 

[Josiah]

An argument I've heard quite often in Mariology because when people seem to honor Mary as the Mother of God, people say she was just a random woman selected. And if so, then many why did God need to use a random woman to reveal His Son?

The Incarnation required a mother.


Why MARY was chosen as that mother? She was of the line of David is probably the theological reason. Otherwise, we aren't told. But I think we can surmise from the Bible that she was an amazing woman of faith and obedience.


IMO, the modern RC Denomination gives Mary too much focus and errs in declaring baseless, irrelevant, new (and at times unique) Marian views as DE FIDE DOGMA. IMO, much of modern "Evangelicalism" errs in ignoring Mary (maybe even worse) and in condemning views as HERESY that aren't shown as such in Scripture. But then I'm Lutheran - neither modern RCC or "Evangelicalism."


My half cent.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[Josiah]

If you don't want to pray to blessed Mary then don't. What other Christians do with their prayers is nobody's business but their own and God's.

I get your point ... but respectfully disagree. I think we ARE our brothers' keeper, that we ARE to help our brothers and sisters in Christ. Where there is error, I think we SHOULD seek to help that person. "Speak the truth in love" is our admonition, not "ignore whatever is said and done cuz truth doesn't matter."

Now.... ATTITUDE and PROCESS matter.... a LOT..... "speak the truth WITH LOVE." But I reject the relativistic, individualistic belief that what is believed and done is irrelevant and to be "tolerated."


Sorry.


Pax


- Josiah

 

[visionary]

I am just glad there was a faithful woman that God could trust with this sacred duty.

 

[Brighten04]

I am just glad there was a faithful woman that God could trust with this sacred duty.

Amen. And she was a faithful woman who consented to be the bearer of the Son of God.

 

[Alithis]

Yes, Mary was chosen

yes ..and why was she in particular chosen -what does the scripture say ?

its quite simple and not so deep because is written there ..

-she was betrothed to Joseph ! this is the single attribute given in scripture other then being a virgin..and non virgins were not betrothed by pre arrangement
the single attribute for mary being chosen recorded in the direct unambiguous scripture is that and nothing else - She was betrothed to joseph who was of the line of david ,the tribe of Judah, the decant of israel ,isaac and abraham ..

she was not special in any other way or form, not a deity, not sinless, not anything at all. one has to add to scripture what is NOT THERE to even imply such godless superstitions .

 

[George]

Alithis, how would you react if someone referred to Mary as the Mother of God?

 

[Josiah]

MY view of the TITLE, "Mary - the Mother of God" (Matre Dei)....

Theologically, it's okay. Mary is the mother of Jesus.... and Jesus is the Incarnate God. Scripture itself records Jesus being address as "God" and I think that is okay for Scripture and us to do so.

Nonetheless, just because one CAN do something doesn't mean they SHOULD. The term is often confusing and needs explaining... and like a joke that NEEDS to be explained in order to "get it" is one best... not told, so a term that one KNOWS is likely to be not understood is best avoided (I actually think the Eastern "Theotokos" - God bearer - is less confusing and thus better than the western variant: Matre Dei). Unless I'm conversing with Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans or Lutherans - I avoid the term entirely. I will affirm that Mary is the mother of Jesus - who is the Incarnate God (a point all Christians seem to acknowledge) which makes EXACTLY the same theological point as the title in question - without the confusion and need for explanations.

 

[MoreCoffee]

-she was betrothed to Joseph ! this is the single attribute given in scripture

So the genealogy in Luke and the different one given in Matthew are not attributes related to Blessed Mary?

 

[Alithis]

Quote Originally Posted by bill1231
Yes, Mary was chosen

yes ..and why was she in particular chosen -what does the scripture say ?

its quite simple and not so deep because is written there ..

-she was betrothed to Joseph ! this is the single attribute given in scripture other then being a virgin..and non virgins were not betrothed by pre arrangement
the single attribute for mary being chosen recorded in the direct unambiguous scripture is that and nothing else - She was betrothed to joseph who was of the line of david ,the tribe of Judah, the decant of israel ,isaac and abraham ..

she was not special in any other way or form, not a deity, not sinless, not anything at all. one has to add to scripture what is NOT THERE to even imply such godless superstitions .

So the genealogy in Luke and the different one given in Matthew are not attributes related to Blessed Mary?

only if you dive back into ambiguity .. plainly both lines listed end with "joseph " .. nither lines listed end with Mary .. that pretty plain simple straightforward and unambiguous - as usual in the attempt to falsely elevate mary as something more then flesh and blood you must turn to hair splitting words and manipulative non bible text of ambiguity .. You can never validate rome's claims using plain direct scripture . So i can never believe a word you teach on it without denying the word of God and im not going to deny the word of God .

luke begins with "Joseph was the son of Heli." and traces backward to adam

mattew begins at Abraham and traces forward to "Jacob was the father of Joseph" who is betrothed to mary ..

No matter which way it is twisted and turned you cant deny both end at JOseph nither end at mary ..its not mary's lineage and this is consistent with the holy Script and hebrew way which ALWAYS traced via the male line throughout the scriptures .

 

[Alithis]

Alithis, how would you react if someone referred to Mary as the Mother of God?

exactly as i have always reacted ..its documented on this site more the one time

first- show me the title in the scripture where it is given to mary ?.. not the ambiguous manipulated reference of men but where in the scripture is mary EVER give this title by the Father , the son -the lord JEsus or the holy Spirit ,or the apostles or ANYONE ? if the title is not given to her by the scriptures then it is Not God who gave it to her .. it is man . so i will hold the word of God above the word of man ,not the other way around ever .

then show me where in the scriptures the term is EVER used ..only once- and it is a term God (who changes not ) declares to be detestable to him .
you wil show me in the scriptures that mary became the mother of the "man" the flesh and blood body of JESUS .. and i will say amen .
but you wil never show me where she became the mother of the eternal one true living god who has no beginning and no end. before she was born of the blood of adam .. GOD IS .

the scripture only ever called her the mother of "JEsus " which means saviour .. the flesh and blood lamb of God who was to be a sacrifice for all .. she is clearly the mother of the FLESH MAN ..
she is not the mother of the FAther ,she is not the mother of the Holy Spirit and the term GOD ..which is plural in tense .. is the father the son and the holy Spirit .. you need all three as one ..to arrive at the term "GOD" to say she is the "mother of GOD " is a false claim . for before she was born he says of himself "I AM " .to suggest that that which is created comes before he whom created it is nothing short of idolatry and blasphemy .

the mary (moon goddess of ancient roman and babylonian sun worship and the babe in arms ) of rome is not even the mary of the Bible unto whom the bible GIVEs ZERO titles .. but rome gives many .there is good reason that it is rome that gives all these titles to mary and not the bible .it is because
-rome and the Bible do NOT agree on who these two very different people are .

The mary of the bible is NOT the mother of God ..the bible never states that
the mary of the bible is NOT a deity
the mary of the bible is NOT sinless
the mary of the bible is NOT a mediator between man and God
the mary of the bible had no other attribute then this .. she was betrothed to Joseph


the mary of the bible and the mary of rome .. are NOT the same person -they are speaking of completely different beings -one true.. the other a demonic lie .
just as the jesus of the book of mormon and the jesus of the bible oare NOT the same person
just like the jesus of the jehovah witness cult and the JEsus of the bible are NOT the same person

 

[MoreCoffee]

...that pretty plain simple straightforward and unambiguous...

Type it often enough and it will begin to seem to be true to you.

 

[George]

exactly as i have always reacted ..its documented on this site more the one time

first- show me the title in the scripture where it is given to mary ?.. not the ambiguous manipulated reference of men but where in the scripture is mary EVER give this title by the Father , the son -the lord JEsus or the holy Spirit ,or the apostles or ANYONE ? if the title is not given to her by the scriptures then it is Not God who gave it to her .. it is man . so i will hold the word of God above the word of man ,not the other way around ever .

then show me where in the scriptures the term is EVER used ..only once- and it is a term God (who changes not ) declares to be detestable to him .
you wil show me in the scriptures that mary became the mother of the "man" the flesh and blood body of JESUS .. and i will say amen .
but you wil never show me where she became the mother of the eternal one true living god who has no beginning and no end. before she was born of the blood of adam .. GOD IS .

the scripture only ever called her the mother of "JEsus " which means saviour .. the flesh and blood lamb of God who was to be a sacrifice for all .. she is clearly the mother of the FLESH MAN ..
she is not the mother of the FAther ,she is not the mother of the Holy Spirit and the term GOD ..which is plural in tense .. is the father the son and the holy Spirit .. you need all three as one ..to arrive at the term "GOD" to say she is the "mother of GOD " is a false claim . for before she was born he says of himself "I AM " .to suggest that that which is created comes before he whom created it is nothing short of idolatry and blasphemy .

the mary (moon goddess of ancient roman and babylonian sun worship and the babe in arms ) of rome is not even the mary of the Bible unto whom the bible GIVEs ZERO titles .. but rome gives many .there is good reason that it is rome that gives all these titles to mary and not the bible .it is because
-rome and the Bible do NOT agree on who these two very different people are .

The mary of the bible is NOT the mother of God ..the bible never states that
the mary of the bible is NOT a deity
the mary of the bible is NOT sinless
the mary of the bible is NOT a mediator between man and God
the mary of the bible had no other attribute then this .. she was betrothed to Joseph


the mary of the bible and the mary of rome .. are NOT the same person -they are speaking of completely different beings -one true.. the other a demonic lie .
just as the jesus of the book of mormon and the jesus of the bible oare NOT the same person
just like the jesus of the jehovah witness cult and the JEsus of the bible are NOT the same person

first- show me the title in the scripture where it is given to mary ?.. not the ambiguous manipulated reference of men but where in the scripture is mary EVER give this title by the Father , the son -the lord JEsus or the holy Spirit ,or the apostles or ANYONE ? if the title is not given to her by the scriptures then it is Not God who gave it to her .. it is man . so i will hold the word of God above the word of man ,not the other way around ever .

That title was given by early Christians and supported by the early Ecumenical Councils.

the scripture only ever called her the mother of "JEsus " which means saviour .. the flesh and blood lamb of God who was to be a sacrifice for all .. she is clearly the mother of the FLESH MAN ..
she is not the mother of the FAther ,she is not the mother of the Holy Spirit and the term GOD ..which is plural in tense .. is the father the son and the holy Spirit .. you need all three as one ..to arrive at the term "GOD" to say she is the "mother of GOD " is a false claim . for before she was born he says of himself "I AM " .to suggest that that which is created comes before he whom created it is nothing short of idolatry and blasphemy .

Christ is fully God and fully Man. The term Mother of God is not saying that Mary created God or Jesus, and I'm not quite sure how people arrive at that thought.

for before she was born he says of himself "I AM " .to suggest that that which is created comes before he whom created it is nothing short of idolatry and blasphemy .

Again, I can't see where that term says that Mary created Him. Mary is the Mother of the human side of Christ.

the mary (moon goddess of ancient roman and babylonian sun worship and the babe in arms ) of rome is not even the mary of the Bible unto whom the bible GIVEs ZERO titles .. but rome gives many .there is good reason that it is rome that gives all these titles to mary and not the bible .it is because
-rome and the Bible do NOT agree on who these two very different people are .

The mary of the bible is NOT the mother of God ..the bible never states that
the mary of the bible is NOT a deity
the mary of the bible is NOT sinless
the mary of the bible is NOT a mediator between man and God
the mary of the bible had no other attribute then this .. she was betrothed to Joseph

Scripture does not mention Mary as the Mother of God, so you're correct on that. But let's also not forget that Scripture is silent on many other things. Hence why the Ecumenical Councils and Church Fathers came into play.

.there is good reason that it is rome that gives all these titles to mary and not the bible .it is because
-rome and the Bible do NOT agree on who these two very different people are .

Also the Gospel of James also covers regarding the life of the Virgin Mary.

the mary of the bible and the mary of rome .. are NOT the same person -they are speaking of completely different beings -one true.. the other a demonic lie .
just as the jesus of the book of mormon and the jesus of the bible oare NOT the same person
just like the jesus of the jehovah witness cult and the JEsus of the bible are NOT the same person

With all due respect, you can disagree without calling Mary a demonic lie. And yes you're supposedly referencing the Mary of Rome, but nevertheless it's an unnecessary attack.

 

[Alithis]

That title was given by early Christians and supported by the early Ecumenical Councils. I said show me in the bible don't try to cancel the bible with man's traditions thanks



Christ is fully God and fully Man. The term Mother of God is not saying that Mary created God or Jesus, and I'm not quite sure how people arrive at that thought. not denying it ...but mary bought forth the flesh body ..the godhead already IS .she is not the mother of God the bible never gives her that title not ever .



Again, I can't see where that term says that Mary created Him. Mary is the Mother of the human side of Christ. -exactly



Scripture does not mention Mary as the Mother of God, so you're correct on that. But let's also not forget that Scripture is silent on many other things. Hence why the Ecumenical Councils and Church Fathers came into play. Again , just because it is silent (which it is not in this case it expressly does NOT give her an such title) does not automatically validate some one adding it later .to even imply such a thing is to say mans word is infallible over Gods . wrong . i understand that your denomination counts the traditional word of church fathers as authoritative .. but i do not never did never wil .. God is the father ,JEsus the head of HIS church -he can never contradict his own word .



Also the Gospel of James also covers regarding the life of the Virgin Mary. 0 not sure what you are referring to as its not in context with the part you were replying to



With all due respect, you can disagree without calling Mary a demonic lie. And yes you're supposedly referencing the Mary of Rome, but nevertheless it's an unnecessary attack. please don't use misdirections of topic i never said "mary " was a demonic lie- i said (meant )the doctrines about her taught specificaly by rome which are not in nor agreed to by the Bible .. are a demonic lie .

and i stand by it as long as the Holy Scripture is true - those teaching cannot be true .. chose this day whom you wil serve -i chose the lord JEsus .. not rome becaseu he said we cannot serve two masters . and it is prophesied that doctrines of devils would arise and the roman doctrines around mary which have ZERO bible foundation -canot possibly be from the Holy Spirit . and that only leaves one other spirit .

The mary of the bible and the mary of rome .. are NOT the same person -they are speaking of completely different beings -one true.. the other a demonic lie .
just as the jesus of the book of mormon and the jesus of the bible oare NOT the same person
just like the jesus of the jehovah witness cult and the JEsus of the bible are NOT the same person