Why is this diversity not worrying Christians?

[Albion]

How do we know what is God's word and what isn't?

Various Church councils decided it on the basis of a consensus, accepting the inspired Hebrew Scriptures and adding those Gospels and Epistles from the Christian era that were deemed to be inspired, and this required them to be in harmony with the information conveyed in the "Old Testament" books.

Many more religious writings about Christ and his followers were rejected than were accepted as divinely inspired, and the books that were finally included in the canon, "The Bible," were not settled upon until almost four centuries after Christ.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

And how do we know that the people who decided the canon at those councils were right?

 

[Albion]

And how do we know that the people who decided the canon at those councils were right?

In an absolute sense, you don't.

Theoretically, "they" could have been mistaken. However, the several councils represented the Church as a whole, the books they approved of were (with only a couple of exceptions) already accepted by the various churches of the Christian world as being divinely inspired, and at some point we must accept that Christ founded his church and promised that the Holy Spirit would guide it and preserve it against falsehood.

So in this most important matter, who is right--the Church or any individual coming at some point later in time and speaking only from his own hunches?

Bear in mind also that, of all the thousands of Christian denominations in the world--Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox--we cannot name but a handful of 'fringe' ones that say the Bible as we have received it is not trustworthy, etc.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

And how do we know that the people who decided the canon at those councils were right?

Pastor Cascione, a Lutheran Missouri Synod pastor, researched this topic for about 30 years, using the various Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and found a pattern underlying the entire Bible that is not found in extra-Biblical writings. In addition, he found that the patterns are most complete using the manuscripts underlying the King James Version vs. the manuscripts used in modern translations. His research is presented in a book:

In Search of the Biblical Order - Patterns in the Text Affirming Divine Authorship from Revelation to Genesis: Gioacchino Michael Cascione: 9780615563756: Amazon.com: Books

In Search of the Biblical Order - Patterns in the Text Affirming Divine Authorship from Revelation to Genesis [Gioacchino Michael Cascione] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. In Search of the Biblical Order - Patterns in the Text Affirming Divine Authorship from Revelation to...

www.amazon.com

 

[SetFree]

How do we know what is God's word and what isn't?

By The Holy Spirit.

I'm a firm believer that The Holy Spirit is given after one confesses their Faith on The Father and His Son Jesus Christ and been baptized. That was Lord Jesus' promise to His disciples, and to us.

Not every believer receives the same calling or spiritual gifts though. I believe one that is called to teach will be given a deeper understanding in God's Word. This so they are able to teach it to a wide audience of believers on Christ. Some larger Churches have a pastor that teaches Bible only and is a scholar in Bible languages, and then others as evangelists that preach The Gospel only, and other ministers visit the sick and old.

The basics of God's Plan of Salvation, The Gospel of Jesus Christ, all Christians should understand and agree on. But many of the deeper things written in God's Word, that only comes by prayer and disciplined Bible study.

 

[Prepared]

The topic of discussion is constituted by the questions from the following TikTok video:

TikTok - Make Your Day

Why is it ok for so many people who call themselves Christians to believe such wildly different things? It's like there's no base that we all stand on, it's like every Christian's belief system is as unique as their own personality. It's like we all crafter a version of God and a version of the Gospel in our own image. Why is it ok that we all believe such different things? What even is truth anymore? Does it even matter what is truth? As long as you believe it with your whole heart, is that all that matters? Of course not! So why is every Christian ok with this diversity of Christian denominations?

Wildly different things - I disagree on that point. What Christians disagree with frankly are minor things, such as the age of the Earth or when the rapture will occur or is Hell's fire eternal torment or not.

Christians who are followers of the doctrines of Christ all believe what is most important _ the salvation that Christ offers and through him is the only way for redemption.

Are Christians 100% perfect in obedience, no they're not.

 

[Lees]

And how do we know that the people who decided the canon at those councils were right?

Because we know. (John 7:16-17)

The only reason any books were placed in the Canon of Scripture is because His people knew the voice of their LORD. And they will not hear the voice of another. (John 10:4-5)

Lees

 

[Albion]

Wildly different things - I disagree on that point. What Christians disagree with frankly are minor things, such as the age of the Earth or when the rapture will occur or is Hell's fire eternal torment or not.

Hmmm. I agree that "wildly different things" overstates it. Christians of different denominations have much in common, including the essentials of the faith in almost every case; but yet, what Christians disagree on is not confined to minor things.

There are a lot of differences that are important, and this is true even among people who agree on the basics of the faith such as the identity of the true God, the creation and fall of mankind, the need for a savior, and so on. We see this in everyday existence. Christians of different denominations generally concede that the members of a denomination other than their own are true believers because of the basics, but they nevertheless choose membership in different congregations because truth is still important when it comes to who leads the congregation, what the ordinances/sacraments that are observed represent, exactly what it is that Christ taught as being morally vs. what actions are immoral, and more.

 

[Fritz Kobus]

The topic of discussion is constituted by the questions from the following TikTok video:

TikTok - Make Your Day

Why is it ok for so many people who call themselves Christians to believe such wildly different things? It's like there's no base that we all stand on, it's like every Christian's belief system is as unique as their own personality. It's like we all crafter a version of God and a version of the Gospel in our own image. Why is it ok that we all believe such different things? What even is truth anymore? Does it even matter what is truth? As long as you believe it with your whole heart, is that all that matters? Of course not! So why is every Christian ok with this diversity of Christian denominations?

It is not okay, but that is the way it is. Too many teachings that are not founded in the Bible, but people cling to them for some reason. One of the worst areas of offensive teachings is end times.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Wildly different things - I disagree on that point. What Christians disagree with frankly are minor things, such as the age of the Earth or when the rapture will occur or is Hell's fire eternal torment or not.

Christians who are followers of the doctrines of Christ all believe what is most important _ the salvation that Christ offers and through him is the only way for redemption.

Are Christians 100% perfect in obedience, no they're not.

We literally can't agree on WHY Christ had to suffer and die and on how salvation is achieved. Orthodox and Protestants believe that He died for completely different reasons. I'm sorry, but I think knowing the reason why an omnipotent God had to send His Son to suffer and die in order to be able to forgive you for a wrongdoing your ancestors did is pretty important stuff.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Not by making a false comparison. But you could have, if you had so chosen, confined your issue to Christianity. However, that wasn't what the TikTok article did, and it was the impetus for you to create this thread and post your O.P.

What are you talking about? Neither the TikTok video (I'm not sure what you mean by "article", as there is no article), nor my OP mentioned other religions. You're the one who brought up other religions.

 

[Albion]

What are you talking about?

I'll try to be as direct as possible in answering your question.

1. The Original Post--yours--presented a lecture/article/video from a man who was wrong in his claims. They were quite overstated. Christians are NOT, in fact, as divided as he was saying. That is an error on his part, and it was basically the entirety of his message.

2. Your first reply (post #3) followed that up by making claims about other world religions in order to support his erroneous argument about the condition of Christianity. Doing that didn't help his argument a bit because these claims were also in error, so doing that only served to muddy the waters further in our discussion here.

 

[Albion]

We literally can't agree on WHY Christ had to suffer and die and on how salvation is achieved. Orthodox and Protestants believe that He died for completely different reasons. I'm sorry, but I think knowing the reason why an omnipotent God had to send His Son to suffer and die in order to be able to forgive you for a wrongdoing your ancestors did is pretty important stuff.

Name a few Christian denominations for us that do not believe that the possibility of humans being saved from the consequences of sin was made through a direct act on the part of the Creator who sent his own divine son to suffer and die for those sins....and that we may achieve eternal salvation with God by believing and trusting in the Savior.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Yeah, I'm not wasting my time having this conversation. You're just claiming "I'm right, you're wrong" and twisting my words.

 

[Albion]

I offered you the chance to prove the point you presented to the forum, and you declined.

So we end by accepting that there is NOT, in fact, a great difference between Christian denominations when it comes to the central doctrines of the Christian faith. Okay.

Yes, there are some differences of nuance or other secondary matters that are not specifically spelled out in Scripture, but it's not at all the situation as was described in that Tik Tok video that you promoted.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

I offered you the chance to prove your point and you declined.

No, you did not. You started the discussion with a "tu quoque" and then twisted my words to make it seem like I was the one bringing up other religions, when, in fact, I was merely replying to your reply about other religions. And yes, other religions agree upon how their adherents are saved more than Christians do.

 

[Albion]

No, you did not. You started the discussion with a "tu quoque" and then twisted my words to make it seem like I was the one bringing up other religions,

No, I didn't. I said that you posted some ideas about other religions...which you undeniably did.

when, in fact, I was merely replying to your reply about other religions.

Great. And then I noted that what you said about them was wrong. Was I obligated to agree with your thinking??

And yes, other religions agree upon how their adherents are saved more than Christians do.

What does that mean? "Other religions" but none identified; and "saved more than Christians do?"

Besides, unless you can say that there is complete uniformity in those religions concerning the matter of salvation, there is disagreement!

And that's only a single doctrinal issue. Anybody who knows much at all about Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, and other such religions should realize that they are all divided into competing factions, not unlike Protestantism- Catholicism-Orthodoxy that we talk about so much in the case of Christianity.

 

[Josiah]

@SetFree
@Albion
@Lucian Hodoboc
@Lees

How We Got the New Testament

. This is in 6 parts: How We Got the New Testament It’s an important question but one very few Christians ask. There are two common MYTHS: Roman Catholic: Jesus told Peter that these 27 books (and only these) are canonical, Peter told the Catholic Church, and eventually (it took many...

www.christianityhaven.com

How We Got the Old Testament

This is in 4 parts.... How We Got the Old Testament Writing began around 3400 BC in ancient Samaria, a land where Abraham (and Judaism) would be born some 1300 years later, so writing was already an ancient and well established by the time of Abraham. It’s very likely that Abraham could...

www.christianityhaven.com

.

 

[SetFree]

We literally can't agree on WHY Christ had to suffer and die and on how salvation is achieved. Orthodox and Protestants believe that He died for completely different reasons. I'm sorry, but I think knowing the reason why an omnipotent God had to send His Son to suffer and die in order to be able to forgive you for a wrongdoing your ancestors did is pretty important stuff.

He did answer that though. Are you sure you read it and believed it?

Heb 2:14-18
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted.
KJV


And also...


1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV

Those sections above in red particularly reveals why The Father gave His Son to be born in the flesh like us, and be without sin (unlike us), and sacrifice Himself upon the cross. It was to defeat death and the devil. So that idea of defeating death and the devil goes back to what old event?...

... It goes back to the event of Satan's original rebellion of old against God, in coveting God's throne that God had actually created him to guard over (parable of Ezekiel 28). Like Apostle John said, the devil sinned from the beginning. Satan actually did the 1st sin, ever, in coveting God's throne, and by that act it brought death, which is why the power of death has been assigned to Satan. (I find that many brethren are not taught about this.)

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

He did answer that though. Are you sure you read it and believed it?

How can I believe something if I don't even understand it? What exactly does it mean that Jesus defeated satan through His death and resurrection? Why was it necessary for Him to die and resurrect? He is all-powerful. He could have easily spoken satan out of existence.

And, if satan is defeated, why does the Bible warn us against satan roaming around like a lion, trying to devour people? How can a defeated being do any roaming around and devouring?

And how come people still die and nothing seems to have changed after Jesus died and resurrected? There's no global peace, no knowledge of God in every person, like the Old Testament prophesied.

... It goes back to the event of Satan's original rebellion of old against God, in coveting God's throne that God had actually created him to guard over (parable of Ezekiel 28). Like Apostle John said, the devil sinned from the beginning. Satan actually did the 1st sin, ever, in coveting God's throne, and by that act it brought death, which is why the power of death has been assigned to Satan. (I find that many brethren are not taught about this.)

Did satan choose to covet God's throne or did the desire appear in him out of nowhere and he just didn't fight it? Like, I'm genuinely trying to understand how this works. When an evil desire appears in a human, we say that either our fallen nature or demons planted that evil seed, that desire, and the human chose to nurture it, to obey it, to feed it.

But when satan was lucifer, before he rebelled, he didn't have a fallen nature and there were no demons to plant seeds in him (were they?), so how did the desire to covet God's throne appear? Like, if his job was to glorify and worship God, he should have no attraction towards doing anything that is opposed to that. It's kind of how a well-fed herbivore, who had been grazing the entire day, will look at a piece of meat you give it and have no desire to eat from it. Because it doesn't like meat and because it doesn't lack the food it needs.

So why would a being (lucifer) who had everything it was designed to need look at something it wasn't designed to need and choose to create in itself a desire to have that thing it doesn't need (God's throne)?