Who IS and IS NOT a Christian?

[atpollard]

Actually, it is in many tracts used for evangelism. "Just repeat after me..."

So go get one of them. Does the tract say that you are finished? Having said the prayer, you are now 100% sanctified and can go back to whatever you were doing. That is the accusation thrown at the "sinner's prayer" and the derogatory title of "free grace" applied to it. So is that what the tract actually teaches?

Is the accusation justified or unfair?
Go look at an actual tract that employs a sinner's prayer.

 

[MennoSota]

So go get one of them. Does the tract say that you are finished? Having said the prayer, you are now 100% sanctified and can go back to whatever you were doing. That is the accusation thrown at the "sinner's prayer" and the derogatory title of "free grace" applied to it. So is that what the tract actually teaches?

Is the accusation justified or unfair?
Go look at an actual tract that employs a sinner's prayer.

The following explains how you can receive Christ:
You Can Receive Christ Right Now by Faith Through Prayer
(Prayer is talking with God)
God knows your heart and is not so concerned with your words as He is with the attitude of your heart. The following is a suggested prayer:
"Lord Jesus, I want to know You personally. Thank You for dying on the cross for my sins. I open the door of my life and receive You as my Savior and Lord. Thank You for forgiving me of my sins and giving me eternal life. Take control of the throne of my life. Make me the kind of person You want me to be."
Did you pray this prayer?

I still have questions
*
If it does, pray this prayer right now, and Christ will come into your life, as He promised.
http://www.4laws.com/laws/englishkgp/default.htm

 

[atpollard]

The following explains how you can receive Christ:
You Can Receive Christ Right Now by Faith Through Prayer
(Prayer is talking with God)
God knows your heart and is not so concerned with your words as He is with the attitude of your heart. The following is a suggested prayer:
"Lord Jesus, I want to know You personally. Thank You for dying on the cross for my sins. I open the door of my life and receive You as my Savior and Lord. Thank You for forgiving me of my sins and giving me eternal life. Take control of the throne of my life. Make me the kind of person You want me to be."
Did you pray this prayer?

I still have questions
*
If it does, pray this prayer right now, and Christ will come into your life, as He promised.
http://www.4laws.com/laws/englishkgp/default.htm

DID THEY LIE?
Romans 10:8-11 NASB
8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”


... and here is what else they said AFTER that:

Now That You Have Entered Into a Personal Relationship With Christ
The moment you received Christ by faith, as an act of your will, many things happened, including the following:

1. Christ came into your life (Revelation 3:20 and Colossians 1:27).

2. Your sins were forgiven (Colossians 1:14).

3. You became a child of God (John 1:12).

4. You received eternal life (John 5:24).

5. You began the great adventure for which God created you (John 10:10; 2 Corinthians 5:17 and 1 Thessalonians 5:18).

Can you think of anything more wonderful that could happen to you than entering into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Would you like to thank God in prayer right now for what He has done for you?

By thanking God, you demonstrate your faith.

To enjoy your new relationship with God...

Suggestions For Christian Growth
Spiritual growth results from trusting Jesus Christ. "The righteous man shall live by faith" (Galatians 3:11). A life of faith will enable you to trust God increasingly with every detail of your life, and to practice the following:

G Go to God in prayer daily (John 15:7).
R Read God's Word daily (Acts 17:11) - begin with the Gospel of John.
O Obey God moment by moment (John 14:21).
W Witness for Christ by your life and words (Matthew 4:19; John 15:8).
T Trust God for every detail of your life (1 Peter 5:7).
H Holy Spirit - Allow Him to control and empower your daily life and witness (Galatians 5:16,17; Acts 1:8).
The Importance of Baptism
The view of most evangelical Christian scholars is that salvation is by grace through faith alone. This is especially indicated by Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3:16, 1 John 5:1. It is important to understand that baptism is a result of salvation, not a cause.

There are different baptism methods. They may include the sprinkling of water over the head of the professing believer or the total immersion of the person under water (Greek: "Baptismo" = to immerse). However, the procedure is not as important as the individual's understanding and motivation to seek baptism.

Some cite Mark 16:16 as their proof text that baptism is necessary for salvation, but they only quote the first half of the verse and typically leave out the second half, which indicates the necessity of belief as being the prerequisite to the salvation issue.

The way to resolve most problems pertaining to the issue of baptism is to look at the whole of Scripture. When we do, we find that there is absolutely nothing we can do as humans to earn salvation. Romans 6:23 tells us that salvation is a "free gift." Free means that there is nothing we can do to deserve it. On the other hand, baptism is something we choose to do. If baptism or any other human work or activity (such as going to church regularly, going on a pilgrimage or visiting a "holy site") contributed to our salvation, we could boast that we did something and contributed to our salvation. However, Scripture says that no one should boast before God Ephesians 2:8-9 .

We come to Christ though grace by faith, and our public baptism brings glory and honor to God. Baptism is an act of obedience, not to obtain salvation, but because of it -- because we love Him and want to obey Him. The motivation to pursue baptism should originate from a desire to show to the world an outward demonstration of the person's decision as well as the inward work the Holy Spirit has already begun in us. An unsaved person would not likely want to be baptized, because he would not have the Holy Spirit indwelling him to prompt his desire to follow Christ in obedience (unless a sect or cult group has erroneously taught him or her otherwise.) The fact that one even wants to be baptized (being assured that only faith alone in Jesus Christ saves) is evidence that the Holy Spirit already indwells that person, a result of being born of the Spirit by faith alone.

In the book of Acts, baptism is typically the outward response to coming to faith. It was seen as part of a process which includes: 1) hearing (or reading about) the gospel, 2) being convicted and led by the Holy Spirit to confess one's sins (Greek: "Homologeo" = to agree with, to speak the same), 3) coming to faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, 4) beginning the progress of growth (which includes repenting from known sin), 5) joining a group of believers or church fellowship, and 6) being baptized. The last two parts are where there are different opinions among believers or churches.

Where some churches differ with what has been stated above chiefly centers on whether a person is saved if they have not been baptized (or if they have not been baptized the "right" way). In our understanding a person is saved when they put their faith in Christ. Of course, we all want them to join a church which exalts Christ and be baptized.

Fellowship In a Good Church
God's Word admonishes us not to forsake "the assembling of ourselves together..." (Hebrews 10:25). Several logs burn brightly together; but put one aside on the cold hearth and the fire goes out. So it is with your relationship with other Christians. If you do not belong to a church, do not wait to be invited. Take the initiative; call the pastor of a nearby church where Christ is honored and His Word is preached. Start this week, and make plans to attend regularly.

Is that a message worthy of Christian condemnation for leading sinners to a false gospel?

 

[MennoSota]

DID THEY LIE?
Romans 10:8-11 NASB
8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”


... and here is what else they said AFTER that:


Is that a message worthy of Christian condemnation for leading sinners to a false gospel?

Here's their heresy...

...as an act of your will,...

The will of man is rebellion against God. Romans 3 tells us that no one seeks God, not even one. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that God graciously makes us alive in Christ and then gives us the gift of faith so that we cannot boast about our willful choice.
The confession of faith in Romans 10 comes...after God has redeemed us by his grace. It does not come before redemption.
Many people can read a script with no effect to the heart, but only God can make a dead man rise to new life.

 

[popsthebuilder]

For members who are questioning the salvation other members in the forums and these members adhere to the Nicene Creed, then it is frowned upon by us as staff. That's my point. They should stop. Our protocol is usually to PM those members to let them know that, for example, Roman Catholics are considered Christian on this site and they need to stop questioning their salvation.

Soooo.....if they do not agree with the destruction of all writings and views of Arius, and do not believe begotten to be coeternal in both directions, is it then okay to question them here....in this setting?

And why not the others?
I witness terrible fights (not here) mostly all among orthodox trinitarians I guess you could call them, but they all believe the Nicene Creed to be a basis for the validity of one's faith. This seems off to me seeing as how the Creed was developed by man and the fruits of the men who made it a certainty were surely bad. To neglect history is to repeat it. The crusades weren't too cool, nor the Spanish Inquisition, nor was the destruction of writings that one doesn't agree with an honest thing to do. It was done out of hatred and fear and pride; none of which are attributes of good works, which are indeed; according to scripture; THE means of which we are to know the nature of the hearts of others (especially those professing faith)

This is only my opinion. Having the freedom to speak about it is a welcome change.

Thank you Josiah.

peace

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[popsthebuilder]

This thread seems to me to have gone completely off the rails, but OTOH, that's not the end of the world.

However, if anyone wants to reconstruct the line of thinking...

I believe that Josiah was prompted to start this thread because of posts 35 and 36 of another thread, "Nondenominational churches." And the point that got confused concerned how the word Christian is to be understood.

One who believes in Christ (Messiah) as their salvation, and who believes in the bodily resurrection of Christ.

(my personal opinion I am willing to discuss)

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

 

[Imalive]

Here's their heresy...

The will of man is rebellion against God. Romans 3 tells us that no one seeks God, not even one. Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that God graciously makes us alive in Christ and then gives us the gift of faith so that we cannot boast about our willful choice.
The confession of faith in Romans 10 comes...after God has redeemed us by his grace. It does not come before redemption.
Many people can read a script with no effect to the heart, but only God can make a dead man rise to new life.

Thats not heresy. Thats Calvins heresy to tell a person he cant choose. Its 2 sides of the same coin. You can choose yes or no unless youre the demoniac from Gadara. All people everywhere have to be told that they have to repent.

And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation."

 

[Josiah]

Whether one CHOOSES to come to spiritual life or that is GIVEN to them by God is not the issue here.

The issue is how to do treat one who identifies as a Christian, as one who is born again?

See the opening post....

 

[MennoSota]

Thats not heresy. Thats Calvins heresy to tell a person he cant choose. Its 2 sides of the same coin. You can choose yes or no unless youre the demoniac from Gadara. All people everywhere have to be told that they have to repent.

And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation."

Did Calvin write the Bible? The truth is in the scriptures. Only after being made alive can a spiritually dead person proclaim faith.

 

[MennoSota]

Whether one CHOOSES to come to spiritual life or that is GIVEN to them by God is not the issue here.

The issue is how to do treat one who identifies as a Christian, as one who is born again?

See the opening post....

We treat them like any human. We extend mercy and grace by loving our neighbor. If God has redeemed them, that's just a bonus.

 

[MoreCoffee]

We treat them like any human. We extend mercy and grace by loving our neighbor. If God has redeemed them, that's just a bonus.

Maybe God has redeemed them and the fact that they post as a Christian is their testimony to the redemption that they believe they have received from God and that is the significant matter in CH when replying to their posts treat them as Christian even when disagreeing with their stated theology. It's good manners. It is charitable. It is the Christian thing to do.

 

[MennoSota]

Maybe God has redeemed them and the fact that they post as a Christian is their testimony to the redemption that they believe they have received from God and that is the significant matter in CH wen replying to their posts treat them as Christian even when disagreeing with their stated theology. It's good manners. It is charitable. It is the Christian thing to do.

It's really not our position in the Kingdom. Our role is to be ambassadors and preach reconciliation. God's task is to reconcile whom he wills. In any case, "love your neighbor as yourself."

 

[MoreCoffee]

It's really not our position in the Kingdom. Our role is to be ambassadors and preach reconciliation. God's task is to reconcile whom he wills. In any case, "love your neighbor as yourself."

I don't see the connection between your reply and the post you replied to.

 

[MennoSota]

I don't see the connection between your reply and the post you replied to.

Christians can fight over the faith with passion. Iron sharpens iron. Fluffy tolerance of ignorant ideas from brothers and sisters in Christ is benefitting no one. Some Christians seem to like feeling warm and cozy on their barkalounger rather than exercising their spirit.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Christians can fight over the faith with passion. Iron sharpens iron. Fluffy tolerance of ignorant ideas from brothers and sisters in Christ is benefitting no one. Some Christians seem to like feeling warm and cozy on their barkalounger rather than exercising their spirit.

That may be so but when a person identifies as a Christian then accepting their word for it is good manners and unless they show by words and conduct that their claim to be a Christian is false there's no good reason to treat them as anything but a Christian.

 

[MennoSota]

That may be so but when a person identifies as a Christian then accepting their word for it is good manners and unless they show by words and conduct that their claim to be a Christian is false there's no good reason to treat them as anything but a Christian.

You accept their word, but in discussion it can become quite evident that their is a wolf among the sheep. Cults often love-bomb their victims, so being nice isn't a good means of discernment. But, discussing the attributes of God, the person of Jesus and the authority of scripture can reveal much about the spiritual nature of a person.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You accept their word, but in discussion it can become quite evident that their is a wolf among the sheep. Cults often love-bomb their victims, so being nice isn't a good means of discernment. But, discussing the attributes of God, the person of Jesus and the authority of scripture can reveal much about the spiritual nature of a person.

I agree about testing their stated theological views and that

• the nature of God
• the person of Christ

matter in the tests.

The [exclusive and ultimate] authority of holy scripture is a distinctively Protestant test, Catholics have a different view and so do Orthodox.

 

[user1234]

We treat them like any human. We extend mercy and grace by loving our neighbor. If God has redeemed them, that's just a bonus.

Yes, but How to define 'love your neighbor', though?
Would you believe Ive actually had 'christians' treat me like a piece of crap, and actually tell me I need to love my neighbor, including ones that have assaulted and vandalized us and given us all kinds of harrassment in the past?!

(Beyond Jesus first) I honestly dont know how Stephen (and others) did it, ... asking God to forgive those stoning him WHILE THEY WERE STONING HIM!
But I doubt anyone doing the stoning was also telling him, 'You need to love your neighbor, or forgive, or turn the other cheek, (except, so they could hit that one with another rock, I guess)

What ppl often seem to confuse is, Stephen wasnt being all nicey-nice ... He wasnt even really giving them the gospel of the grace of God, (well, he was, regarding Gods grace to Israel, and by extension, to them, but they REJECTED grace, so, he was giving them the truth about their stiffnecked, hard-hearted religious ways.

And he wasnt really being forgiving from himself, but at the end, after he knew he would die and asking Jesus to receive him...then he cried for God to forgive them, and he died.

Was Stephen a christian? Of course. Did he love his neighbor? Yes. Was he being loving? Yes again. Did he love those stoning him, the religious? Yes. Would he be accused of , ummm, flaming? Im thinking thats pretty much why they stoned him.
Jesus loves us so much, He died for us, and telling others that, and inviting them to believe in Him and be saved, and praying for them, is loving them. But sometimes ppl might live nearby, but they arent your neighbor, they're acting as your enemy. We've got some nasty ones around us. I tried in the past with the gospel, but from me, theyre not interested. Its obvious theyre not christians. But sharing the gospel on a christian website should be a welcome haven, especially amongst brethren, for mutual edification, for helping other potential guests/members, and for Gods glory. imo.

 

[Imalive]

I distance myself from ppl w bitter roots who get offended. Its the bait of satan. John Bevere book. Many will be offended.
Irather have some utter rude jerk offend me than a so called nice person who is always offended by nothing and cant even handle a dumb joke.
It's more work for me to not get offended by that. Let no bitter root come up and affect many.

 

[Imalive]

https://www.amazon.com/Bait-Satan-L...tDescription_secondary_view_div_1511347213276