What's the difference between God's will be done and "God wants all..."

[RichWh1]

What's the difference between God's will be done and "God wants all..."

We do not all have faith. We are by nature enemies of God (meaning, not with faith) 1 Colossians 1:21, Romans 5:10.

God gives us faith as a gift. We are all saved in the same manner, by grace through faith. If everyone had faith then everyone would be saved, but not everyone is. It's not the amount of faith, but the fact we have it. Look at what the faith the size of a mustard seed can do...and that isn't huge!

So, no. Not everyone has faith. The unbeliever cannot make himself believe in God because he does not have faith. If he had faith he would be called a believer.

The choice you think people are making is more of an affirmation toward God which isn't a choice. It's a realization and acknowledgement. Staying in faith isn't the choice that got them there!

We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ not just faith (generic) but specific.

Colossians 1 and Romans 5 don’t state that man doesn’t have faith. It mentions nothing of faith.

When we wake up in the morning we believe that when our feet hit the floor they will hold us up. We believe (or trust) that when we swallow we won’t choke, etc.

These are generic examples of faith.
Faith in Jesus Christ is a specific faith.





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[MennoSota]

If we have no free will then how can God judge us? I mean we had no control over what we did? Does that sum up what you are saying?

Paul answers your complaint in Romans 9.
Second, making a choice is not equal to free will. A slave can make a choice, but that doesn't mean his will is free. The Bible tells us we are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness.
We are held accountable, but we are not free. We were purchased with a price. Jesus chose to purchase us with his own life. He didn't choose to purchase everyone. Why? God knows. What we know is that God is not obligated to purchase one rebel who is enslaved to sin. Yet, He has done so. He has purchased many and He has done so by grace. Unmerited favor.
If we could have chosen, we could boast in our choice. But, we were enslaved by sin. We could never choose to escape. We needed a Redeemer who would purchase us and make us a slave to righteousness. Such amazing grace cannot be overlooked or cheapened by false claims of free-will. No will of our own ever freed us from slavery to sin. Only God frees us and it is by God's choice not ours. To God be the glory, not to man be the glory. Free-will philosophy gives man the glory. It is a false teaching.

 

[psalms 91]

Paul answers your complaint in Romans 9.
Second, making a choice is not equal to free will. A slave can make a choice, but that doesn't mean his will is free. The Bible tells us we are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness.
We are held accountable, but we are not free. We were purchased with a price. Jesus chose to purchase us with his own life. He didn't choose to purchase everyone. Why? God knows. What we know is that God is not obligated to purchase one rebel who is enslaved to sin. Yet, He has done so. He has purchased many and He has done so by grace. Unmerited favor.
If we could have chosen, we could boast in our choice. But, we were enslaved by sin. We could never choose to escape. We needed a Redeemer who would purchase us and make us a slave to righteousness. Such amazing grace cannot be overlooked or cheapened by false claims of free-will. No will of our own ever freed us from slavery to sin. Only God frees us and it is by God's choice not ours. To God be the glory, not to man be the glory. Free-will philosophy gives man the glory. It is a false teaching.

Funny that doesnt fit very well with Gods will is that all men be saved

 

[MennoSota]

Funny that doesnt fit very well with Gods will is that all men be saved

Funny, God didn't say that the entire human race would be saved. I went through 2 Peter 3 and pointed out how making the "all" universal is completely out of context.
What doesn't fit is the teaching that God wills all humanity to be saved.
You have created a conundrum for yourself with your interpretation. Either God saves all humanity (which is the teaching of unitarian/universalists who embrace free-will philosophy) or God is incapable of bringing His will to completion and is therefore not all-powerful. Which path are you going to take. Or...will you attempt the philosophical argument that God backs down to the will of humankind so that they can control their own destiny, one way or the other? Of course, following that path means you eliminate grace and acknowledge that smart, reasoning, humans can choose God off the selection shelf of gods and brag about their superior selection over other humans poor selection.
Glory be to man!!!
Why is it so hard for you to accept that God rules and reigns over the affairs of man? Why does it bother you that God chose you?

 

[psalms 91]

And why cant you see that man has free will which God gave to us to choose Him or not. There is a difference between Gods sovergn will and His permissive will. Only by bypassing all the scripture that talks of man making choices and ignoring the salvation message as presented. Free will is a fact and no I am not a universalist by any stretch and never will be because I beleive that doctrine is straight out of the pits and leads many to hell rather than to heaven.

 

[Lamb]

When a father adopts a child, he doesn't ask if the child chooses him.

When a benefactor is written into a will, he isn't asked if he chooses to be in the will.

Adoption and a testament/will are both examples of how God chooses his children and it's not our choice...except to go back to being an enemy of His.

 

[MennoSota]

And why cant you see that man has free will which God gave to us to choose Him or not. There is a difference between Gods sovergn will and His permissive will. Only by bypassing all the scripture that talks of man making choices and ignoring the salvation message as presented. Free will is a fact and no I am not a universalist by any stretch and never will be because I beleive that doctrine is straight out of the pits and leads many to hell rather than to heaven.

Share all the verses that teach free-will. I have shared in other threads the large number of verses and passages that teach God's choosing, God's election and God's predestination.
2 Peter 3 has been shown to not teach free-will. Joshua 29 has been shown to not teach free-will. Hebrews has been shown to not teach free-will. 91, free-will is not biblically supported. It is philosophically created by men who argue that they control their destiny and God does not.

 

[MennoSota]

When a father adopts a child, he doesn't ask if the child chooses him.

When a benefactor is written into a will, he isn't asked if he chooses to be in the will.

Adoption and a testament/will are both examples of how God chooses his children and it's not our choice...except to go back to being an enemy of His.

My disagreement is with your last statement: "except to go back to being an enemy of His."
This statement is contrary to Jesus statement "I will never leave you nor forsake you." It is contrary to Jesus seeking out the lost sheep (not the goats). It is contrary to God knowing who are His. It contradicts the message of the prodigal son. Despite the son's terrible decisions, he never lost his sonship.

 

[Arsenios]

Where do we find God having two separate wills in the Bible?

Do you mean His human will and His Divine Will?

YUPPEREEE!

He had BOTH...

Did you really not know that?

NNnnnnnnaaaaggggghhhhh!

You KNEW that!

I know you did...

Didn't you?

Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Do you mean His human will and His Divine Will?

YUPPEREEE!

He had BOTH...

Did you really not know that?

NNnnnnnnaaaaggggghhhhh!

You KNEW that!

I know you did...

Didn't you?

Arsenios

Silly answer, Arsenios. Jesus did the will of the Father.
John 6:35-39
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

 

[atpollard]

What's the difference between God's will be done and "God wants all..."

We know that God's will be done whether we try to get in the way or not. I look at Jonah for an example of that. But then we have some scripture that states God wants all to be saved and we know that's not going to happen because of other scripture. So what's the difference?

There is none. What God wants, God gets ... His will is always done.

 

[Arsenios]

Silly answer, Arsenios. Jesus did the will of the Father.

You really do not know then, do you?

I thought you did...

Of COURSE Jesus did the will of His Father, yet He HAD a human will...

He even prayed, you will recall: "NOT MY WILL, but Thy Will..."

He came to earth to rectify the fallen human will...
And besides that, the whole of the fallen human condition...
In His Own fully human person...

His whoe life was obedience to the Father...
And we are to follow Him

Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

You really do not know then, do you?

I thought you did...

Of COURSE Jesus did the will of His Father, yet He HAD a human will...

He even prayed, you will recall: "NOT MY WILL, but Thy Will..."

He came to earth to rectify the fallen human will...
And besides that, the whole of the fallen human condition...
In His Own fully human person...

His whoe life was obedience to the Father...
And we are to follow Him

Arsenios

You are attempting to create a dichotomy that does not exist.

 

[Arsenios]

You are attempting to create a dichotomy that does not exist.

Christ rectified the FALLEN human will in his own Person...
That is why we, with OUR fallen human will, are Baptized INTO Christ...
So that WE TOO can bring our will into obedience to God...

YOUR human will is in dichotomy with Christ-God...
THAT is why He incarnated...
To fix what went wrong...

Arsenios

 

[MennoSota]

Christ rectified the FALLEN human will in his own Person...
That is why we, with OUR fallen human will, are Baptized INTO Christ...
So that WE TOO can bring our will into obedience to God...

YOUR human will is in dichotomy with Christ-God...
THAT is why He incarnated...
To fix what went wrong...

Arsenios

Let's restate as scripture states it. What does the Bible say?
2 Corinthians 5:14-19
14*For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; 15*and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised.

16*From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17*Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18*All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; 19*that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.