What is the biggest issue facing churchs today

[psalms 91]

exactly Brinny!

 

[brinny]

That God is dismissed, watered down, and rendered an after thought if thought of at all.

 

[psalms 91]

And the gospel is twisted to make wrong right. These times were foretold by Jesus, men being lovers of themselves cjhildren being disobedient

 

[brinny]

it's all un-folding before our very eyes...

 

[ctayus]

Can I say all of the above?

 

[psalms 91]

Very definitely

 

[Lamb]

Sure. Too many topical sermons. Six Ways for a better marriage. 5 ways for better kids. Nine ways for financial security. Etc. Ways to be better and healthier (moralistic and therapeutic) with God's help, of course (deism).

Too many churches have gotten away from the gospel, Christ and Him crucified. That's all Paul preached and wrote about. Everything he believed came from that.


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Although this isn't true in my church, I am seeing it in many denominations. The gospel of Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins isn't being preached enough!

 

[Josiah]

I voted "OTHER"


IMO, these are the greatest issues facing the church....


1. Lack of focus. I think the early church (first 3 centuries) had a laser focus on the Great Commission (You GO.... to all..... baptizing..... teaching) and on the Great Commandment (Love!). I don't think most Christians today wake up each morning with that as their #1 priority. I serve on the Church Council of our parish (I'm the property guy) and I seem to get a lot more time than our Evangelism person (as we don't have a love person, lol). Our agenda spends little time on getting the Gospel to the lost, and even less time on loving.



2. Institutionalism. Christians have created institutions - parishes and denominations. I think this is good but I also think that institutions take on a life all their own and tend to ever-increasingly ZAP Christians of their time, energy and focus. Institutions are, above all, self-perserving and self-promoting. I see that in my own parish: while we SAY it's all about the Great Commission and Great Commandment, there's a LOT of "Our parish needs to grow.... our parish needs more members.... our parish needs more money.... our parish needs more attention.... our parish needs to be here 50 years from now." I talk a lot about keeping our buildings looking good, in good repair, and maintained so that they'll be here 50 years from now. I talk a lot about how our facilities look to the community. I love my denomination (the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod) but as I read our denominational magazine, I see a lot of underlining institution protection and promotion. It's just what institutions do. They are like an organism: obsessed with surviving and thriving. SOME of this is probably unavoidable (institutions HAVE institutional issues) but we need to work hard to keep FRONT AND CENTER the Christ, the Cross, the Great Commandment, the Great Commission..... the point is NOT our institutions but the Kingdom of God, the point is NOT pointing people to our parish but to our Savior.



3. Relativism. Yes, we live in a world increasingly like the Roman world .... it is a POST Christian world, a POST Church age. The world no longer assumes the divine or sin or an afterlife, and it's no longer "in" to be a Christian. But I don't see that as a major problem (Christianity became the #1 religion in the world in EXACTLY that milieu! Persecution has improved and helped Christianity, not harmed it). I see the increasing effects of the Enlightenment..... There is no truth, truth doesn't matter, there is no absolute anything, there is no right or wrong.... this threatens Christianity by making it irrelevant. The best Christianity can seen to offer in this milieu is feel-good-ism, and I think much of modern Christianity has actually ACCEPTED that rather than fought against it. Much of modern Christianity has forsaken truth, doctrine, morality.... and substituted "we'll help you feel better." Even a kind of non-professional "pop" psychology as more and more Christianity seems to be about the steps to make a happier marriage or obedient teens or better finances. Increasingly, the church as bought into this relativism (hook, line and sinker) so that it really has nothing to do with sin and grace, heaven and hell, the Cross and the Savior..... it has to do with the church pretending to be psychologists and helping people FEEL gooder and happier. Too much of Christianity has bought into the problem rather than being a light in the darkness.



MY half cent.



Soli Deo Gloria



- Josiah



.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Birth control is a symptom so is same sex marriage and declining attendance but the underlying cause is lying and its children. There is a culture of death in the world born out of the first lie told in the garden.

... listen to the word of the Lord, you mocking men, who lord it over my people who are at Jerusalem. For you have said: "We struck a deal with death, and we formed a pact with Hell. When the inundating scourge passes through, it will not overwhelm us. For we have placed our hope in lies, and we are protected by what is false." Isaiah 28:14-15

 

[IACOBVS]

I'm totally ok with same sex marriage and birth control; there should be more of that. It's ultra-conservatism that's causing the damage. Just sayin'. :heheh:

 

[Pedrito]

Point 1

Romanos, Post #5 on Page 1: “Declining attendance is a huge issue.”

A relevant question may well be: Who is leaving – the wheat or the tares?

If the tares, is it not a good thing?

If the wheat, then where are they going? Are they waking up to the conflict of priorities within their denominations? Are they forming, or finding out about and joining, independent groups that may in some ways, or in many ways, be closer to the Apostolic way?

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Point 2

Some years ago, a particular non-aligned movement was set up to fund the sending of indigenous “missionaries” to spread the Evangelical Gospel (as only they can) among the unreached isolated communities in their own countries. The founder approached many rich churches in America requesting aid in funding that outreach which promised to be so “fruitful”.

The major responses he received were twofold:
- Funding would only be provided if the resulting village-based groups of believers were guaranteed to be made part of the funding denomination.
- Funds could not be diverted from the all-important building improvement programs and such like.

The “saving of souls” clearly took second place (or third, or fourth, or…) behind denominational priorities.

Josiah’s comments in Post #28 on Page 3, struck Pedrito as containing wisdom in that regard.

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Point 3

Another relevant question may be, since Jesus said the Evil One would definitely plant tares among the wheat, is there any local denominational church group that is immune? Is any denomination?

Are those denominations and related local groups that place great store on increasing numbers and beautifying their physical environments, as well as on “programs” (as many do, to hook people into the local denominational scene) - are those denominations in fact (even if unawares) encouraging the planting and growth of tares?

We are told in Matthew 13 that the angels will sort church members into the two major classifications at the end of the world (but not before that, apparently). However, didn’t the apostle John indicate (1 John 5:16,17) that some tares would be identifiable after a while? Shouldn’t tares, if and when identified, be encouraged to find lodgings elsewhere?

Well… Maybe that would be considered too disruptive, and might result in a reduction of congregational and denominational numbers. So maybe the idea is not a good one.

However, didn’t Jesus refer to His followers as a “little flock”?

 

[NewCreation435]

There are so many issues, but I think the church is eroding from within due to an unwillingness for people to surrender all to Him and trust Him with everything. We want him to be Lord, but we still want our hands on the wheel. We want the world, but also God. We want heaven, but we want to see how close to the world we can get without getting burned. The church has largely compromised today which is the reason it lacks power and real moral authority.

 

[JRT]

I regard the biggest problem facing churches today is that so many are no longer relevant to the modern world. Churches can no longer reject the realities of science and the modern world in an attempt to return to the now irrelevant certainties of past ages.

 

[psalms 91]

But it is relevant, Jesus has every answer that this world needs and each person in it needs Jesus. What is relevant is God and His word, all the rest is just noise

 

[hedrick]

I regard the biggest problem facing churches today is that so many are no longer relevant to the modern world. Churches can no longer reject the realities of science and the modern world in an attempt to return to the now irrelevant certainties of past ages.

This view has been common since I was first involved in Christianity in the 1960's. However the "relevant" versions of Christianity haven't done very well. Sociologists of religion have looked at it. I don't think there's a good answer to what is going. But my impression from the people I've seen grow up is that versions of Christianity that take into account scientific and scholarly evidence don't inspire people to get up on Sunday morning the way the simpler ones do.

I should note that what a lot of the sociologists say is that the part of the population that is committed to Enlightenment-based ideas is growing smaller. There's some data to back that up, though I find it hard to believe that this is all that's going on. Recent politics seems consistent.

 

[TurtleHare]

Although this isn't true in my church, I am seeing it in many denominations. The gospel of Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins isn't being preached enough!

Oh you betcha and there is evidence of that being true all over the world wide web also don't you agree? I mean look at the fuss you will find of denial of God not being able to handle salvation on his own is their views and don't want to be told that God's got their back jack!

 

[Pedrito]

Post #33 on Page 4:
“I regard the biggest problem facing churches today is that so many are no longer relevant to the modern world. Churches can no longer reject the realities of science and the modern world in an attempt to return to the now irrelevant certainties of past ages.”

Some churches are actually doing very well.

They are primarily those preaching the “Prosperity Gospel” – in a nutshell, give heaps of money to [this particular organisation] and God will return it umpteen-fold.

Those churches have indeed made themselves “relevant to the modern world” – by pandering to the growing modern-day selfishness in our Western societies.

(Pedrito has been around long enough to track that undeniable social trend.)

The pandering normally includes rock concert style entertainment worship – a clever innovation which leads to emotional highs which are psychological in nature but promoted as spiritual.

Those churches “silly” enough to preach responsibility and self denial, find themselves “in trouble”.

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But is all that really such a bad thing?

Doesn’t the Bible indicate there will be a falling away? Didn’t Jesus Himself indicate that the faithful might be hard to find when He returns? Shouldn’t the faithful be encouraged because all this could maybe indicate some proximity of Jesus’ return?

Pedrito suggests that it is only people whose first loyalty is to the denomination they belong to, and its continued survival and growth, or to organised Christendom in general, that have misgivings about the observable falling away from traditional “Churchianity”. Pedrito further wonders if those promoting variations of the “Prosperity” and “Feel Good” Gospels, as well as those who are eager to join those movements for what they offer, might in fact be subjecting themselves to a less than fully salutary influence.

(But of course, Pedrito could be totally wrong in those regards.)

 

[~Jo~]

I think the problem is the people inside the church, that all seem to want the comfort of home not a cold place that feels empty and cold like most churches are today you freeze your butt off just sitting there for an hour or so.. people want everything these days and are not prepared to sit listening to some guy banging on about stuff half never understand anyway.. There is life outside the church and I think you don't need a church to pray to a god who ever your god is.. They can do it in the comfort of there own home if they want to ...I love to go inside churches but when they are empty of people ..just seems to make more sense to me but then I'm kinda weird anyway...lol ....Honestly people would rather go shopping here on a sunday than go to church I think..