What do Lutherans believe?

[Lamb]

...meaning that we can turn to the Lutheran Confessions in addition to the Lutheran church bodies and agencies, etc. I mentioned before, and we get the same answer to the question, "What do Lutherans believe?" It is as you've said here.

The ELCA churches won't be so reliable as you most likely know. They're turning away slowly but surely from what Lutherans believe although there are still congregations that are fighting from within to hold to the truths.

The majority of the Lutheran church websites I've visited pull quotes from the Bible usually for what Lutherans believe. Rightfully so! But there is no set structure of wording that is enforced if that's what you're asking for websites when you visit them to find out what they believe?

 

[Lamb]

Not really, because it's just opinions from SOME Lutherans, obviously not all, and the more I hear of Lutheran opinions, the more they seem determined to divide the body of Christ, rather than unite, and I think Id rather go to the bible, where I KNOW its true and I have much to learn, rather than a denominational list of 'must-believes', some of which may be good and some of which may be opinions that arent so good, and rather than debate them and divide over it (because ppl are just locked into their opinions) Id rather focus on Gods Word and what unites us.
From what Ive see, the Lutherans believe that its the eating and drinking of the bread and wine that is important and brings forgiveness, but I believe its the SHEDDING of Christs blood on the cross that paid for our sins and our faith in that (in Jesus) that we're forgiven.
I dont think the Lutheran church (or a section of it) is going to change its opinion any time soon, and I dont expect to be changing what I believe the bible says, so Id rather say God bless you and praise the Lord.

Your opinion of what Lutherans believe is not accurate. Go back and read through again please.

 

[Josiah]

Not really, because it's just opinions from SOME Lutherans, obviously not all

And such is the "problem" with the way MoreCoffee chose to frame the discussion. Look, NO ONE can possibly document that all 75 million Lutherans believe that the world is sorta round or that Trump is president of the United States or that unicorns exist. There's simply no way to document what ALL 75 Lutherans BELIEVE about anything. So yes, while I can state that Lutheranism believes in God, I can't say that all LUTHERANS do. I can't even say that ALL Lutherans are of that opinion. We CANNOT document with all 1.1 billion Catholics believe about anything either.

What I CAN do is tell you what Lutheranism officially TEACHES. I can tell you what they are typically TAUGHT in Youth and Adult Confirmation classes. I CAN tell you what they CLAIM they believe when they are Confirmed (and often when they join a Lutheran parish). DO they ACTUALLY believe that? I don't know, you don't know, MoreCoffee doesn't know.... and NO ONE can possibly document.

the more I hear of Lutheran opinions, the more they seem determined to divide the body of Christ, rather than unite

I see your point: Is the alternative to just embrace the uber-relativism of our day, to stand with Pontius Pilate and satirically proclaim "What is truth?" Is the alternative to insist, "Truth is whatever I MYSELF currently feel is what the Bible MEANS but just doesn't have the wisdom to actually say?"

On this point, Lutherans are just fully accepting all the words in the text: deleting none, adding none, denying none. The position held by all Christians for 1500 years. IMO, it's not Lutherans who are dividing Christians on this point. It was the Western, Roman Catholic "Scholastics" in the 11th Century who invented the new (and still unique to the RCC) view of Transubstantiation and Zwingli in the 16th Century who invented "Symbolic/metaphor" views. Lutheranism is simply accepting all the words "as is" - and nothing more. Just as all Christians did for 1500 years. It's the RCC and Evangelicals in the 16th Century who question these words and invented new positions - dividing Christians on this point.

I dont think the Lutheran church (or a section of it) is going to change its opinion any time soon, and I dont expect to be changing what I believe

I don't deny that. But then the title of this thread is not, "Lutherans change my opinion."



Thank you.


- Josiah

 

[Albion]

The ELCA churches won't be so reliable as you most likely know. They're turning away slowly but surely from what Lutherans believe although there are still congregations that are fighting from within to hold to the truths.

The majority of the Lutheran church websites I've visited pull quotes from the Bible usually for what Lutherans believe. Rightfully so! But there is no set structure of wording that is enforced if that's what you're asking for websites when you visit them to find out what they believe?

Well, of course, I haven't visited the websites of every Lutheran congregation in the USA, but when--in a few minutes--I found it on the websites of the LCMS itself and the WELS itself and the Concordia Publishing House and several individual congregations AND EVERY LAST ONE of these explained their belief using the "with, and, under" method or some version of it, such as explaining it's "under" but not also saying "with," I think the controversy is over. There is no other way to look at it.

 

[Lamb]

Well, of course, I haven't visited the websites of every Lutheran congregation in the USA, but when--in a few minutes--I found it on the websites of the LCMS itself and the WELS itself and the Concordia Publishing House and several individual congregations AND EVERY LAST ONE of these explained their belief using the "with, and, under" method or some version of it, such as explaining it's "under" but not also saying "with," I think the controversy is over. There is no other way to look at it.

Using with and under are perfectly acceptable since, as I pointed out in the confessions it's stated that way. Is there a problem with that? I also pointed you to a pdf file that explained why the confessions used the wording that they did.

 

[Albion]

Using with and under are perfectly acceptable since, as I pointed out in the confessions it's stated that way. Is there a problem with that?.

Not on my part. I quite agree with what you've been writing on this subject.

 

[Lamb]

No on my part. I quite agree with what you've been writing.

I was hoping you'd point me to a site that used different wording so I could email them and call them out on it

 

[Confessional Lutheran]

I was hoping you'd point me to a site that used different wording so I could email them and call them out on it

She's a Lutheran. She'd do it. :scared:

 

[Lamb]

She's a Lutheran. She'd do it. :scared:

You know me! LOL

 

[user1234]

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Its still what the Lutheran denomination (s?) teach based upon their opinion, and thats fine, thats what the thread is, as you pointed out.

Its when we read 'THIS is what 'The Church' believed for 1500 years' (really? which? not the Lutheran, obviously) ... Or 'NOBODY believed this or that until ROME said this or ZWINGLES said that...'
That it goes beyond the Lutheran opinion and gets forced as personal opinion as fact.

Im guessing there were ALWAYS believers who believed that the bread and wine were symbolic of Jesus body and blood, from the Last Supper forward and through today.
And I think Ive learned enough about Lutheranism, and theyre free to believe what they believe, but I think Im better off sticking with the bible, theres enough in there for me to learn and grow by, and the religious/denominational documents only tend to confuse things and cause division amongst other believers and seekers.
I'm looking for fellowship and unity at this point. But I think I understand the request and the purpose of starting this thread. God bless you.

 

[Lamb]

Its still what the Lutheran denomination (s?) teach based upon their opinion, and thats fine, thats what the thread is, as you pointed out.

Its when we read 'THIS is what 'The Church' believed for 1500 years' (really? which? not the Lutheran, obviously) ... Or 'NOBODY believed this or that until ROME said this or ZWINGLES said that...'
That it goes beyond the Lutheran opinion and gets forced as personal opinion as fact.

Im guessing there were ALWAYS believers who believed that the bread and wine were symbolic of Jesus body and blood, from the Last Supper forward and through today.
And I think Ive learned enough about Lutheranism, and theyre free to believe what they believe, but I think Im better off sticking with the bible, theres enough in there for me to learn and grow by, and the religious/denominational documents only tend to confuse things and cause division amongst other believers and seekers.
I'm looking for fellowship and unity at this point. But I think I understand the request and the purpose of starting this thread. God bless you.

Lutherans use the bible and believe it, thank you very much.

Have you looked into history? They believed in the Real Presence. It's only been since the Reformation days that "symbolic" beliefs on communion began to be spread.

 

[Albion]

Its still what the Lutheran denomination (s?) teach based upon their opinion, and thats fine, thats what the thread is, as you pointed out.

Its when we read 'THIS is what 'The Church' believed for 1500 years' (really? which? not the Lutheran, obviously) ... Or 'NOBODY believed this or that until ROME said this or ZWINGLES said that...'
That it goes beyond the Lutheran opinion and gets forced as personal opinion as fact.

It's simply a statement of historical fact.

Im guessing there were ALWAYS believers who believed that the bread and wine were symbolic of Jesus body and blood, from the Last Supper forward and through today.

That is no doubt correct, but it doesn't make the foregoing statement concerning history incorrect. If that game were to be played consistently, there would be almost NO reflection upon past events that could be stated as true..


And I think Ive learned enough about Lutheranism, and theyre free to believe what they believe, but I think Im better off sticking with the bible, theres enough in there for me to learn and grow by, and the religious/denominational documents only tend to confuse things and cause division amongst other believers and seekers.
I'm looking for fellowship and unity at this point. But I think I understand the request and the purpose of starting this thread. God bless you.[/QUOTE]

 

[Albion]

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