Water Baptism

Arsenios

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Why does it have to be one or the other? Water OR the Holy Spirit? Why is God prohibited from using both to deliver forgiveness of sins to the one receiving Baptism in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Why do you believe in two baptisms? Believer's Baptism and Spirit Baptism?

You are right, there is ONE Baptism for the forgiveness of sins...
THAT Baptism ENTERS us INTO Christ...
It was commanded to the Apostles to do...
To Baptize ALL the Nations...

The Holy Spirit does not Baptize...
The Servants of our Lord Baptize...
They Baptize IN the Holy Spirit...
And we become Members of the Body of Christ...

So Holy is the Call of God...
That many mistakenly believe...
That they are Baptized by this Call...
For it is the Holy Spirit Who Calls...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

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You were doing good right up until you brought Mary... into it.


Christ came into the world through His Mother...
We who are Baptized into Christ...
Are Brethren together with Christ...
She is OUR Mother too...

And we are Her children...
The Body of Christ...
IS...
The Body of Her...

Honor your Mother, my Brother...
You are speaking of the Mother of our Lord...
And if you are IN the Body of Christ...
She is YOUR mother too...


Arsenios
 

YourTruthGod

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I don't know how we could ever know for certain the answer to that question. We could look at their fruits or deeds and judge that way. But without being able to see what is in their heart, there's no way to say for certain if they are saved or not.

No one is saved until they repent of their sins to Jesus.
 

YourTruthGod

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So magic water places you in Christ.
Nope, your spin on scripture is weak.
God makes us alive, with Christ (immersed, baptized) far before water is ever found.

Oh, is that why you think you can disown John Calvin and Luther, because you don't agree with everything they teach...so Traditional Catholic of you.
 

YourTruthGod

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Apostles participated in signs of Spirit filling. Different from being immersed by the Spirit into Christ.
You and your magic water...

NONE of the Apostles missed out on being water baptized.

Even JESUS was water baptized.
 

YourTruthGod

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A building cannot save...

But if it is built for the sake of God...
No way is that what God tells us.

Built in prayer and worship...

Church was in peoples homes.

Consecrtated in love and joy...

Even a modest one such as the one I serve within...

And is used only for the Service of Christ...

When you enter into it...

Just as when you encounter one of God's Holy Ones...

You will know you are in the Presence of God...

And such a building can be destroyed...

And it can be rebuilt...


Arsenios

What you say is not from the scriptures.
 

MoreCoffee

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You were doing good right up until you brought Mary and the saints into it.

It would be remiss of me to ignore the Blessed Virgin Mary, the angels, and the saints who make constant intercession for the saints here on Earth. Some do ignore them because their religion teaches them that these blessed persons are dead or if not dead insensate regarding earthly persons but I cannot follow their lead in this matter because my Lord told me that they are living and the apostle Paul wrote how they are gathered as a great cloud of witnesses observing the race that God's people on Earth run, the race that God calls them to run so that they may obtain the prize which awaits those who follow the high calling of the Lord Jesus Christ. So I invoke them in my prayers asking that they will join in praying for the good things that I asked from the Lord our God.

I hope that the little emoji that you used indicated that there was humour intended in your remark and that you do not really want the faithful children of God on Earth to forego the benefits of invoking the saints in prayer.

:big-eyes:
 

YourTruthGod

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Why does it have to be one or the other? Water OR the Holy Spirit? Why is God prohibited from using both to deliver forgiveness of sins to the one receiving Baptism in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Why do you believe in two baptisms? Believer's Baptism and Spirit Baptism?

Water baptism is symbolic of what has already happened in the heart. Water baptism is a ceremony to God where you promise you will die to the sins of the world and rise up to live to please Jesus.

Wedding ceremonies are ceremonies that have already happened in the heart, too.

The Father in heaven must like these ceremonies because He teaches them to us in scripture.
 

YourTruthGod

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The monks serving the Church carve our a hole in the rock wall where they sleep...
When they go to sleep for the last time, that opening is sealed with mortar...

The relics of a Holy Person are Holy...
The body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit...
The death of a Holy One is Life...
"To live is Christ - To die is gain."

An Altar cannot be consecrated without a relic of a Martyr...
The Divine Liturgy in the early Faith was often served...
On the body of one who had been martyred for Christ...
Martyrdom is the bearing of the witness of Christ...

Thank you for watching the video...
They are just buildings...
Visible witness to what cannot be seen...
And Holy Places for the Gathering of the dispersed in worship...


Arsenios

Shame, for this is not in the scriptures.
A tomb is a tomb for dead man's body, and a church is the gathering of the living.
 

ImaginaryDay2

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MennoSota

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Why does it have to be one or the other? Water OR the Holy Spirit? Why is God prohibited from using both to deliver forgiveness of sins to the one receiving Baptism in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit? I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. Why do you believe in two baptisms? Believer's Baptism and Spirit Baptism?
If God must do it through a ceremony then it requires human works to merit salvation. It castrates grace.
The greek word, baptizo, means to immerse or dip fully into. It does not require water. It could be anything. So when scripture uses baptizo, we must look at context and not force water into the term. The context may not mean an immersion into water. When the Spirit of God baptizes us. He immerses us into the body of Christ. It's not into water at all...unless of course Jesus is a big glob of water.
So, water is not the thing that the Spirit immerses us into. The Spirit immerses us into Christ.
Water, however, is a physical element that symbolizes the work of immersion the Spirit has done. Water is not the actual immersion the Spirit has already accomplished (with no assistance needed by humans).
So let's not confuse the two. Let's not attempt to juxtipose the two and thus turn water baptism into a magical ceremony that works to save. Let us recognize the work the Spirit has accomplished beforehand, but we symbolically represent with water. If we don't, then we remove grace and replace it with our own works. May God forbid.
 

MennoSota

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Soooo... Magic?
God's work. Not yours. You aren't needed, ID2.
Is it magical, what God does? I wouldn't say that. I would say it's miraculous.
 

Josiah

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If God must do it through a ceremony then it requires human works to merit salvation. It castrates grace.


Another absolutely absurd argument.

Using your "logic" if your minister preaches the word, then it castrates grace since the preacher likely DOES something when he preaches. Jesus would have "castrated grace" by preaching the Sermon on the Mount and washing the disciples feet and healing the man born blind because Jesus DID something.


Your error is not only a absolutely silly point that God is rendered impotent if anyone does anything, but it renounces the "Means of Grace" as Protestants call it , that God can USE words and actions, "tools in the hands of the Carpenter" as it is often put. MUST He? No, God gave faith to John the Baptist when he was still in his mother's womb (Most don't like to tell God what He cannot do; that's a Calvinist and Arminian thing). But does He USUALLY use human words and actions? Yes. Calvinists teach this, too. Often your ABSURD arguments go against Calvinism, too. Where do you get this stuff?




Now, where is the verse that states, "Thou canst NOT administer baptism to any who hath not yet celebrated their Xth birthday (and you won't be told what age that is)." To substantiate the Anti-Paedobaptism dogma of the Anabaptists you echo?

Where is the verse that states, "Thou canst NOT administer baptism to any who hath not proven that they are among the unnamed few for whom Jesus died." To substantiate another dogma of yours.

Where is the verse that states, "Thou canst NOT administer baptism to any unless they hath first given public proof and testimony of their faith in Christ." To substantiate the Credobaptism dogma of the Anabaptists that you echo?

Where is the verse that states, "Thou canst NOT administer baptist to any unless every cell of their body is fully immersed under water." To substantiate another Anabaptist teaching you echo?




.
 

YourTruthGod

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Christ came into the world through His Mother...
We who are Baptized into Christ...
Are Brethren together with Christ...
She is OUR Mother too...

And we are Her children...
The Body of Christ...
IS...
The Body of Her...

Honor your Mother, my Brother...
You are speaking of the Mother of our Lord...
And if you are IN the Body of Christ...
She is YOUR mother too...


Arsenios

That is not biblical.
The mother is is about Sarah, the mother of the promise.
 

MoreCoffee

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God tells me that there is one baptism and that is with water in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit and God tells me that baptism is being buried with Christ and rising with Christ to new life in Christ. God also tells me that baptism saves me and that baptism regenerates and washes away sins. That is good enough for me. I believe it.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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Christ came into the world through His Mother...
We who are Baptized into Christ...
Are Brethren together with Christ...
She is OUR Mother too...

And we are Her children...
The Body of Christ...
IS...
The Body of Her...

Honor your Mother, my Brother...
You are speaking of the Mother of our Lord...
And if you are IN the Body of Christ...
She is YOUR mother too...


Arsenios
That was more of a joke, busting MC's chops, than a serious post.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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It would be remiss of me to ignore the Blessed Virgin Mary, the angels, and the saints who make constant intercession for the saints here on Earth. Some do ignore them because their religion teaches them that these blessed persons are dead or if not dead insensate regarding earthly persons but I cannot follow their lead in this matter because my Lord told me that they are living and the apostle Paul wrote how they are gathered as a great cloud of witnesses observing the race that God's people on Earth run, the race that God calls them to run so that they may obtain the prize which awaits those who follow the high calling of the Lord Jesus Christ. So I invoke them in my prayers asking that they will join in praying for the good things that I asked from the Lord our God.

I hope that the little emoji that you used indicated that there was humour intended in your remark and that you do not really want the faithful children of God on Earth to forego the benefits of invoking the saints in prayer.

:big-eyes:
It was more humor than a serious theological statement.
 

zecryphon_nomdiv

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Water baptism is symbolic of what has already happened in the heart. Water baptism is a ceremony to God where you promise you will die to the sins of the world and rise up to live to please Jesus.

Wedding ceremonies are ceremonies that have already happened in the heart, too.

The Father in heaven must like these ceremonies because He teaches them to us in scripture.
How does God deliver forgiveness of sins to the sinner?
 

YourTruthGod

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God's work. Not yours. You aren't needed, ID2.
Is it magical, what God does? I wouldn't say that. I would say it's miraculous.

"You aren't needed"

That is not the speaking from God.
 
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