Uvalde Discussion

[Lamb]

Is it defensible to take the position that someone who willfully violated the terms of his employment, who failed to even try to save the lives of children entrusted to his care, not at the least be let go from his job for incompetence or dereliction of duty and replaced by someone else who WILL "protect and serve" as expected??

If it is, then what criminal or incompetent, no matter how consequential his misdeeds, couldn't rest assured that his misdoings will be allowed to continue...because the loss of his job might damage the standard of living of his relatives??

That isn't even my argument. This started off in my prayer thread where Lees asked God to punish someone. That's concerning.

I have no qualms at all about men deciding to do something. But that's not even the conversation. This is about asking GOD to do something against men.

 

[Albion]

That isn't even my argument. This started off in my prayer thread where Lees asked God to punish someone. That's concerning.

I have no qualms at all about men deciding to do something. But that's not even the conversation. This is about asking GOD to do something against men.

Had that indeed been all that this has been about, I expect that I would have not commented. But it wasn't.

 

[Lamb]

Had that indeed been all that this has been about, I expect that I would have not commented. But it wasn't.

Oh, but it is. My Prayer Thread was compromised by someone wanting God to do something bad to someone.

 

[Albion]

I expect that it was as you say. However, my reply was based on the comments posted in this thread, including the message I quoted in its entirety.

The idea that a petition made in prayer amounts to trying to bind God's hands, for example, and/or whether someone's POV is vengeful, didn't enter into my reply.

 

[Lees]

Your initial post stated that you wanted GOD to choose to have those policemen lose their jobs. That's the point of this conversation. NOT what men will do in the justice system. So, let's get that cleared up asap.

God is not punishing us because of Christ and praying to God to have men lose their jobs because of what they did is you forcing your will onto God.

I am not sure what 'initial post' you mean since you have divided them. My initial post never mentioned the word 'choose'. My initial post is post #(8) in the 'Prayers for Uvalde' thread. There I said that I pray that all law enforcement that 'sheltered in place' instead of going in immediately and killing the shooter, be fired and disgraced.

In my last post, which you completely ignored I left you with (Rom. 13:1-4). (Rom. 13:4) says concerning law enforcement, "...he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

Did you catch that? "a revenger to execute wrath". Yet you keep saying I am wrong to pray for God to do His work of vengeance with the law enforcement.

When law enforcement doesn't do it's work, it equally comes under the eye of God, and God in turn will turn His wheels of justice upon them also. Using the same law in place. And that is my prayer.

And by the way, you also ignored (2 Tim. 4:14) where Paul said, "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works." What do you think Paul meant by that?

I am not forcing my will upon God to do anything. I am praying in accordance to His will, which is justice exercised by governmental law enforcement agencies. That completely broke down in Uvalde. That which was supposed to be an administrator of good, instead became an administrator of evil. They hid as evil walked around kiilling innocent children with parents begging them to go in. With the children calling out to them while they retreated from evil.

They, the law enforcement, were scared. Feared for their own lives. As I said, if you can't do the job, don't take the job. Nauseating.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Oh, but it is. My Prayer Thread was compromised by someone wanting God to do something bad to someone.

No, I was praying God do something good to someone. That good would be firing all those who allowed the shooter free reign to kill inocent children. And bringing any up on criminal charges if it so demands.

You have a strange notion of what is 'bad'.

Lees

 

[Lees]

Oh, but it is. My Prayer Thread was compromised by someone wanting God to do something bad to someone.

Your prayer thread was compromised by you.

The Uvalde chief of police has resigned. You know why people resign, Because they are guilty as hell.

As the investigation goes on, it becomes all clear that the Uvalde police and supporting units were cowards. And, because they wanted to live, many children died.

Cowardice.

But, let it be known, law enforcement is not the only ones guilty. Black Lives Matter is also guilty. Why? Because law enforcement is now afraid to do what they need to, because some blacks will have them thrown in jail.

Because police have to second guess, these things will continue. Thanks to BLM. Who, by the way, is silent.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

Your prayer thread was compromised by you.

The Uvalde chief of police has resigned. You know why people resign, Because they are guilty as hell.

As the investigation goes on, it becomes all clear that the Uvalde police and supporting units were cowards. And, because they wanted to live, many children died.

Cowardice.

But, let it be known, law enforcement is not the only ones guilty. Black Lives Matter is also guilty. Why? Because law enforcement is now afraid to do what they need to, because some blacks will have them thrown in jail.

Because police have to second guess, these things will continue. Thanks to BLM. Who, by the way, is silent.

Lees

I'm not against people having charges brought against them here on earth by other people for justice. What I don't want is someone compromising my Prayer thread, as you did, asking God to do something to people because you've condemned them in your own heart.

 

[Lees]

I'm not against people having charges brought against them here on earth by other people for justice. What I don't want is someone compromising my Prayer thread, as you did, asking God to do something to people because you've condemned them in your own heart.

I don't dictate who goes to Heaven or Hell.

I do have an opinion about justice, which I stated. You bet it's my prayer that those cowards who let all those children get killed, which is what the investigation is proving, be fired and disgraced, if not criminally charged.

You want my prayers to be just like yours. Well, they're not. You don't like my prayers. OK...they are still my prayers. Are you saying I have to pray just like you?

You can always edit it out, as you have with other of my statements. They don't agree with you. Just remove em. Live in your fantasy world.

Just remember this...no amount of your fantasy world will bring those kids in Uvalde back to life. Pretending like the law was not cowardly, doesn't change the fact that they were. Pretending like if you don't bring it up, then it didn't happen, helps no one.

The truth is the law acted cowardly and the children died. The law is scared to act now due to Black Lives Matter protests sending them to prison.

I guess that's a racist statement. So, edit it out, and continue in your fantasy world.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

I don't dictate who goes to Heaven or Hell.

I do have an opinion about justice, which I stated. You bet it's my prayer that those cowards who let all those children get killed, which is what the investigation is proving, be fired and disgraced, if not criminally charged.

You want my prayers to be just like yours. Well, they're not. You don't like my prayers. OK...they are still my prayers. Are you saying I have to pray just like you?

You can always edit it out, as you have with other of my statements. They don't agree with you. Just remove em. Live in your fantasy world.

Just remember this...no amount of your fantasy world will bring those kids in Uvalde back to life. Pretending like the law was not cowardly, doesn't change the fact that they were. Pretending like if you don't bring it up, then it didn't happen, helps no one.

The truth is the law acted cowardly and the children died. The law is scared to act now due to Black Lives Matter protests sending them to prison.

I guess that's a racist statement. So, edit it out, and continue in your fantasy world.

Lees

What did Jesus say about your enemies? Did he say to pray for them to be disgraced?

 

[Lees]

What did Jesus say about your enemies? Did he say to pray for them to be disgraced?

You tell me sister. What did He say? Chapter and verse.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

You tell me sister. What did He say? Chapter and verse.

Lees

Matthew 5:43-48

New International Version

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Love for Enemies​

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[Lees]

Matthew 5:43-48​

​

New International Version​

​

​

Love for Enemies​

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I will address this verse. Which, again, is more than you do with the verses I give you. See my post #(18) and (25). Please address those verses I gave you.

You stated in post #(19) that this is not about what men will do in the justice system. Which makes no sense because it is specifically about what men do in the justice system. (Rom. 13:1-4) The law is to be a "revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil". The failure of the justice system is what we are praying for, or about.

And on a more personal note, or prayer, See (2 Tim. 4:14). "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord rerward him according to his works." Are you saying that (Matt. 5:43-48) negates ( 2 Tim:4:14). In other words....was Paul wrong in his prayer?

But, to address your verses. (Matt. 5-7) is what is called 'the Sermon on the Mount'. It is the law of the 'Kingdom of Heaven' which is what John the baptist and Christ and His disciples came preaching. The King is here. It's time to set up the Kingdom. (Matt. 5-7) is nothing but law, and even more strict than the Mosaic law.

The 'Sermon on the Mount' is that law which will be in place when Jesus Christ is ruling in Jerusalem over the earth during the Millennium. It specifically is to the Jews, as it is to the Jews that the Kingdom is promised. The Church has not even began yet. It would not begin until Pentecost, (Acts 2).

Now, if you want to follow the Sermon on the Mount as your guide as how you must behave as a Christian, fine. Pray for your enemies. But then recognize too that you are one of the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matt. 5:19) Unless you want to tell me you have kept all these laws. And, have you ever lusted in your heart? (Matt. 5:27-28) Not actually doing it. Just wanting to. The solution is easy. Just cut out your eye or right hand or both.

Also, if you and your husband are taking a walk, and one comes up and slaps you in the face. Do you turn to him so he can hit you again? Does your husband step aside and say, hit her on the other side too. Is that your expectation of what your husband should do? (Matt. 5:39) Of course you probably couldn't do anything about it anyway since by this time you won't have any arms or eyes.

I know...you will say I am being foolish. Exactly right. And the verses you want to use against me, are found in (Matt. 5:43-48) right along with these other laws of the Kingdom.

The laws of the Kingdom will only be possible during the Millennium rule of Christ. He is literally present on earth. Satan is chained in the bottomless pit. Jesus Christ will rule with a rod of iron over the world, in righteousness.

The Church, in trying to force the Kingdom laws upon the Church, does a great disservice to Christians. It is no different than putting them under the Mosaic Law. It has caused much confusion and grief among Christians.

So, your going to the law, (Matt. 5:43-48), which is yet for a different time, to teach me how to pray, doesn't affect me at all. And, by the way, I don't consider law enforcement an enemy. But, when they are guilty of something, then they should pay. And in this case, it should cost them their job. Why? You don't want men like that involved in the protection of citizens.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

I will address this verse. Which, again, is more than you do with the verses I give you. See my post #(18) and (25). Please address those verses I gave you.

You stated in post #(19) that this is not about what men will do in the justice system. Which makes no sense because it is specifically about what men do in the justice system. (Rom. 13:1-4) The law is to be a "revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil". The failure of the justice system is what we are praying for, or about.

And on a more personal note, or prayer, See (2 Tim. 4:14). "Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord rerward him according to his works." Are you saying that (Matt. 5:43-48) negates ( 2 Tim:4:14). In other words....was Paul wrong in his prayer?

But, to address your verses. (Matt. 5-7) is what is called 'the Sermon on the Mount'. It is the law of the 'Kingdom of Heaven' which is what John the baptist and Christ and His disciples came preaching. The King is here. It's time to set up the Kingdom. (Matt. 5-7) is nothing but law, and even more strict than the Mosaic law.

The 'Sermon on the Mount' is that law which will be in place when Jesus Christ is ruling in Jerusalem over the earth during the Millennium. It specifically is to the Jews, as it is to the Jews that the Kingdom is promised. The Church has not even began yet. It would not begin until Pentecost, (Acts 2).

Now, if you want to follow the Sermon on the Mount as your guide as how you must behave as a Christian, fine. Pray for your enemies. But then recognize too that you are one of the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matt. 5:19) Unless you want to tell me you have kept all these laws. And, have you ever lusted in your heart? (Matt. 5:27-28) Not actually doing it. Just wanting to. The solution is easy. Just cut out your eye or right hand or both.

Also, if you and your husband are taking a walk, and one comes up and slaps you in the face. Do you turn to him so he can hit you again? Does your husband step aside and say, hit her on the other side too. Is that your expectation of what your husband should do? (Matt. 5:39) Of course you probably couldn't do anything about it anyway since by this time you won't have any arms or eyes.

I know...you will say I am being foolish. Exactly right. And the verses you want to use against me, are found in (Matt. 5:43-48) right along with these other laws of the Kingdom.

The laws of the Kingdom will only be possible during the Millennium rule of Christ. He is literally present on earth. Satan is chained in the bottomless pit. Jesus Christ will rule with a rod of iron over the world, in righteousness.

The Church, in trying to force the Kingdom laws upon the Church, does a great disservice to Christians. It is no different than putting them under the Mosaic Law. It has caused much confusion and grief among Christians.

So, your going to the law, (Matt. 5:43-48), which is yet for a different time, to teach me how to pray, doesn't affect me at all. And, by the way, I don't consider law enforcement an enemy. But, when they are guilty of something, then they should pay. And in this case, it should cost them their job. Why? You don't want men like that involved in the protection of citizens.

Lees

It seems you're arguing something completely different than what I'm trying to explain to you in regards to my Prayer thread.

 

[Lees]

It seems you're arguing something completely different than what I'm trying to explain to you in regards to my Prayer thread.

Well, I'm certainly arguing something different than you. Of course. But this response of yours is just ignoring my respose which was a response to the verses you gave in post #(32). You want me to pray for my enemies to be obedient to what Jesus said in (Matt. 5:43-48). I explained your ill advised use of those verses.

I explained, I didn't ignore your use of the verses. So, I ask you now, again, what of my questions and verses I gave to you once more in post #(33). (Rom. 13:1-4) (2 Tim. 4:14)

Lees

 

[Lees]

It seems you're arguing something completely different than what I'm trying to explain to you in regards to my Prayer thread.

A little update. A video was just released in Austin Texas, I believe. It showed that cowardly law enforcement had the weapons they needed, and were in the building, but instead just sat around talking and then retreating allowing the shooter to kill as many kids as he could.

What is your prayer now?

You know what my prayer is. What is yours for these officers who helped kill these children?

Lees

 

[Lamb]

A little update. A video was just released in Austin Texas, I believe. It showed that cowardly law enforcement had the weapons they needed, and were in the building, but instead just sat around talking and then retreating allowing the shooter to kill as many kids as he could.

What is your prayer now?

You know what my prayer is. What is yours for these officers who helped kill these children?

Lees

My prayer is for God's will to be done, whatever that is. He has a plan and it might not be what you expect. God wants all men to turn to him in repentance.

Prayer is not to be vindictive.

Let the justice system do what they do, investigate fully and then give consequences accordingly.

I think you and I have different versions of who God is. And again, I say that you're confusing the issue of what I was trying to tell you about my prayer thread.

 

[Lees]

My prayer is for God's will to be done, whatever that is. He has a plan and it might not be what you expect. God wants all men to turn to him in repentance.

Prayer is not to be vindictive.

Let the justice system do what they do, investigate fully and then give consequences accordingly.

I think you and I have different versions of who God is. And again, I say that you're confusing the issue of what I was trying to tell you about my prayer thread.

This is not about 'salvation'. You think you can boil everything down to God loves us and wants us to repent. That is not what this is about. Thus that is why it is in the 'news section' and not your 'prayer section'.

What a cop-out. Ok. Your prayer is only that God's will be done. You don't pray for anything specific. Just that God's will be done. Short prayer. I don't pray anything. Just God's will be done. Concerning abortion, do you just pray God's will be done? Of course you do. It doesn't matter that children are murdered. The point is God's will is done....according to you.

Who says prayer cannot be vindictive....you? You who refuse to answer my questions, because they upset your 'picture' of God. See post #(35) concerning the verses (Rom. 13:1-4) and (2 Tim. 4:14). Please answer.

Here's another question you can ignore. Is God a God of vengeance? Or not? Are we to let God take the vengeance, or not? How do we give the vengeance to God, if we don't pray and ask Him to take the vengeance and not us?

You better believe you and I have a different version of Who God is. And your version is not supported in Scripture, which is why you don't even attempt to answer my questions.

So, just what is your version of God based on? I know...don't tell me...LOVE. He just loves us all. That's all we need to know. NOT!

And by the way, this aint no longer a prayer thread.

Lees

 

[Lamb]

This is not about 'salvation'. You think you can boil everything down to God loves us and wants us to repent. That is not what this is about. Thus that is why it is in the 'news section' and not your 'prayer section'.

What a cop-out. Ok. Your prayer is only that God's will be done. You don't pray for anything specific. Just that God's will be done. Short prayer. I don't pray anything. Just God's will be done. Concerning abortion, do you just pray God's will be done? Of course you do. It doesn't matter that children are murdered. The point is God's will is done....according to you.

Who says prayer cannot be vindictive....you? You who refuse to answer my questions, because they upset your 'picture' of God. See post #(35) concerning the verses (Rom. 13:1-4) and (2 Tim. 4:14). Please answer.

Here's another question you can ignore. Is God a God of vengeance? Or not? Are we to let God take the vengeance, or not? How do we give the vengeance to God, if we don't pray and ask Him to take the vengeance and not us?

You better believe you and I have a different version of Who God is. And your version is not supported in Scripture, which is why you don't even attempt to answer my questions.

So, just what is your version of God based on? I know...don't tell me...LOVE. He just loves us all. That's all we need to know. NOT!

And by the way, this aint no longer a prayer thread.

Lees

I'm just going to say this one last time. There will be NO prayers of evil toward your fellow man on this site. Keep your prayers of hatred from your heart to yourself, not here.

 

[Lees]

I'm just going to say this one last time. There will be NO prayers of evil toward your fellow man on this site. Keep your prayers of hatred from your heart to yourself, not here.

That is quite a testimony. You place yourself as the one who decides what is 'evil'. Yet you can't answer my questions concerning the Scripture.

My actions to your so called 'fellow man' are not dictated by you. They are governed by God and what He has revealed in His Word, the Bible.

My prayers are not the same as yours. Yet you can't answer my questions concerning the Bible. So, who are you following? Because it isn't God.

You're just as confused on hatred as you are on love and prayers. All you have shown is 'just you'. But of course 'you' are an 'administrator'. Thus it doesn't really matter what the Bible says. It just matters what you say.

As the Uvalde investiagation continues, my prayers will be answered, just as they have to a small degree already. The police chief resigned. Oh how hateful God is.

If you're just looking for a reason to ban me, go ahead. I don't say what I do out of fear of being banned. I have stated very clearly, I pray all those law enforcement that didn't go and seek and kill the shooter, that just sat and waited while children were being killed, be disgraced and never allowed into law enforcement again. If not criminally charged with negligence that culminated in the deaths of those children.

Bottom line is, you know I'm right. So you better ban me so as to keep up your facade.

Lees