Trump wanted to have open unrestricted convention in NC

[tango]

I'd say that that may be ANTIFA's greatest victory to date--fooling people into thinking that its plotting and criminality are equalled by some vague "far right" groups. But on the other hand, that's almost always the defense used by far left organizations and their sympathizers.

Find one stray example of something bad here or there that can be attributed to anybody on the political right and then talk as though that and the crimes of the other side essentially even out, meaning that we cannot honestly blame anyone in particular or else that the problem is just something that's typical of America.

I'm not so much thinking of that, I'm just conscious that any group with a motive could conceivably organise some kind of false flag event.

It's hardly surprising that the left are quick to blame the far right, just as it's not surprising that the right are quick to blame the far left. Trying to be as objective as possible given scant information from sources that may or may not be trustworthy, maybe protests organised by the left and intended to be peaceful got hijacked by the extreme left and turned violent, maybe they got infiltrated by a few agent provocateurs from the extreme right to discredit a peaceful protest and "demonstrate" that the left always turns violent.

Whichever option you or I might choose to believe I'm not sure we can clearly indicate that one is credible and the other is not. For what it's worth, I'd have thought by now it would be clear I'm not a sympathizer of the far left.

 

[Albion]

It's hardly surprising that the left are quick to blame the far right, just as it's not surprising that the right are quick to blame the far left.

Not surprising, no. However, if people believe that the two are actually "two peas in a pod"...that's a triumph of disinformation on the part of the far left.

Trying to be as objective as possible given scant information from sources that may or may not be trustworthy, maybe protests organised by the left and intended to be peaceful got hijacked by the extreme left and turned violent, maybe they got infiltrated by a few agent provocateurs from the extreme right to discredit a peaceful protest and "demonstrate" that the left always turns violent.

And maybe it was all done by shape-shifting time travelers or radical vegetarians. Either of those is possible, you know.

If we're going to take well-known facts (about ANTIFA, for example) and blur all the facts with a bunch of "coulda" speculations that "could" be true in theory only if we detach ourselves from all that we already know...that's exactly what ANTIFA and its allies are hoping for. To that end, they are feeding the news media those scenes of staged lectures and bake sales that have been put on in "CHAZ" for the benefit of the guillible.

 

[tango]

If we're going to take well-known facts (about ANTIFA, for example) and blur all the facts with a bunch of "coulda" speculations that "could" be true in theory only if we detach ourselves from all that we already know...that's exactly what ANTIFA and its allies are hoping for. To that end, they are feeding the news media those scenes of staged lectures and bake sales that have been put on in "CHAZ" for the benefit of the guillible.

Sure, but there's a big difference between believing that antifa is about bake sales and holding hands singing kumbaya, and pondering whether they or an opposing extremist group is responsible for specific things. One can reject the assertion that antifa is about rainbows and unicorns without necessarily accepting the unrelated assertion that they are responsible for a specific piece of agitation.

 

[Albion]

Sure, but there's a big difference between believing that antifa is about bake sales and holding hands singing kumbaya, and pondering whether they or an opposing extremist group is responsible for specific things. One can reject the assertion that antifa is about rainbows and unicorns without necessarily accepting the unrelated assertion that they are responsible for a specific piece of agitation.

"Specific piece of agitation?" We have ANTIFA involvement in the recent riots. ANTIFA has long history of violence and an openly professed commitment to Marxist anarchism. They do not exist in order to run soup kitchens, increase literacy, or publicize the benefits of daily exercise.

What exactly is the argument for exonerating them when the evidence is all on the other side? Is it just that there might ALSO have been some unaffiliated sympathizers mixed in with them??

 

[tango]

"Specific piece of agitation?" We have ANTIFA involvement in the recent riots. ANTIFA has long history of violence and an openly professed commitment to Marxist anarchism. They do not exist in order to run soup kitchens, increase literacy, or publicize the benefits of daily exercise.

What exactly is the argument for exonerating them when the evidence is all on the other side? Is it just that there might ALSO have been some unaffiliated sympathizers mixed in with them??

The only evidence I've seen, not that I've been particularly looking for it, is that the right-leaning press blames antifa and the left-leaning press blames right-wing extremists. Having not been there to see it for myself (not that I'd necessarily know a left-wing extremist from a right-wing extremist just by sight) it's hard to draw much of a conclusion from that.

You know, left blames right, right blames left, it really is one of those "nothing to see here" situations. If Fox was writing about the troubles caused by the far-right agitators, or CNN was complaining about far-left agitators, it would be more noteworthy.

 

[Albion]

The only evidence I've seen, not that I've been particularly looking for it, is that the right-leaning press blames antifa and the left-leaning press blames right-wing extremists.

That's true, but I despair at anyone thinking that what the left-"leaning" press says should automatically be believed.

You know, left blames right, right blames left, it really is one of those "nothing to see here" situations.

So would you also say the same thing about the issue of a flat earth vs. a spherical earth? There seem to be people who are absolutely convinced it's flat and they have their own sources of information that they point to.

 

[Jason76]

I'd say that that may be ANTIFA's greatest victory to date--fooling people into thinking that its plotting and criminality are equalled by some vague "far right" groups. But on the other hand, that's almost always the defense used by far left organizations and their sympathizers.

Find one stray example of something bad here or there that can be attributed to anybody on the political right and then talk as though that and the crimes of the other side essentially even out, meaning that we cannot honestly blame anyone in particular or else that the problem is just something that's typical of America.

The racists are mixed in with the far-right, but aren't all of them. Actually, the racists aren't libertarians. Was The Third Reich?

Anyway, it's easy to paint them all the same, but it's not scientific.