The "What" and "Why" of "Sacraments"

[MennoSota]

You will not find any English word in the originals.

Indeed. Thus we find no sacrament. However, we do find the teaching of Messiah and his Apostles. What we don't find is Roman ceremonies.

 

[Albion]

OK. So you're not interested in this particular topic. I think we all got the message.

 

[Albion]

Baptism and Holy Communion are almost universally observed among Christians and given great importance. That Christ instituted them is almost beyond question, although there were similar--similar--ceremonies in the religions that came before Christianity.

So what of the other ones that are believed by some churches to be sacraments but not seen as such by all? What if we take them individually?

Penance AKA Reconciliation, most often called Confession.

Luther considered the possibility that this was a sacrament because repentance, confessing ones sins and receiving absolution is ancient, Scriptural, and beneficial. But can we say that Christ instituted it, that it involves some physical act or ritual in the way that Baptism and Communion do, or even that there are any physical properties to it? Well, no. Not unless your thoughts and wagging your tongue qualify. That doesn't seem parallel to the water in Baptism or the bread in Communion.

And that is not to say that repentance, confessing ones sins, and asking God for forgiveness have no place in churches which do not consider this to be a sacrament of the Gospel. As said before, it is one of the sacraments in the various Catholic (RC, EO, Old Cath, Coptic, etc.) churches; but there are hardly any reformed churches which consider it to be a sacrament (for the above reasons).



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[Lamb]

Baptism and Holy Communion are almost universally observed among Christians and given great importance. That Christ instituted them is almost beyond question, although there were similar--similar--ceremonies in the religions that came before Christianity.

So what of the other ones that are believed by some churches to be sacraments but not seen as such by all? What if we take them individually?

Penance AKA Reconciliation, most often called Confession.

Luther considered the possibility that this was a sacrament because repentance, confessing ones sins and receiving absolution is ancient, Scriptural, and beneficial. But can we say that Christ instituted it, that it involves some physical act or ritual in the way that Baptism and Communion do, or even that there are any physical properties to it? Well, no. Not unless your thoughts and wagging your tongue qualify. That doesn't seem parallel to the water in Baptism or the bread in Communion.

And that is not to say that repentance, confessing ones sins, and asking God for forgiveness have no place in churches which do not consider this to be a sacrament of the Gospel. As said before, it is one of the sacraments in the various Catholic (RC, EO, Old Cath, Coptic, etc.) churches; but there are hardly any reformed churches which consider it to be a sacrament (for the above reasons).



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In the Large Catechism for Lutherans confession/absolution is considered an extension of Baptism.

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

The do not accept Sacraments. They celebrate the ritual of baptism and of the Lors Supper. To the vast majority of them, it is just symbolic in nature. To most of the baptism is more important than the Lord's Super.

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I'm curious about the 'elevation of importance' in a symbolic ritual. If there are no graces imparted in the process, but merely an acceptance into that particular community of faith, what would be the reason for 'elevating' it?

 

[ImaginaryDay2]

Do you find the word sacrament in the Bible?

Point made and noted. Next...

 

[Albion]

When it was said by the leaders of what is called the Radical Reformation that the sacraments which the church had practiced since the time of the Apostles were not important as channels of Grace, something had to be conjured up as an excuse for those people to continue to go through the motions of administering them.

I think you are onto something when you question the idea of them being not important but, well, they are important...sort of.

But it has to be remembered that this is the position taken by only an extremist fringe of the Reformation that was reviled as nuts by mainline Protestants and as heretical by Catholics. Most Protestants retained the two most obvious sacraments that clearly were instituted by Christ.



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[ImaginaryDay2]

In the Large Catechism for Lutherans confession/absolution is considered an extension of Baptism.

I don't see this extension in the Large Catechism. The Book of Concord makes some connection/relation to the Lord's prayer; however Luther doesn't seem to make the point that confession/absolution are a necessary extension of the prayer. So is confession/absolution considered a separate sacrament (for Lutherans), or would it be tied in with another?

A BRIEF ADMONITION TO CONFESSION

 

[Albion]

I don't see this extension in the Large Catechism. The Book of Concord makes some connection/relation to the Lord's prayer; however Luther doesn't seem to make the point that confession/absolution are a necessary extension of the prayer. So is confession/absolution considered a separate sacrament (for Lutherans), or would it be tied in with another?

Definitely not that.

 

[MoreCoffee]

it has to be remembered that this is the position taken by only an extremist fringe of the Reformation that was reviled as nuts by mainline Protestants and as heretical by Catholics.

Who is this fringe? In the USA the largest non-Catholic denomination is the Southern Baptists after them is the United Methodists followed by American Baptist Churches (USA), Churches of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ...

And by far the largest non-Catholic agglomeration of churches is labelled "Other denominations" at around 25.2% of the USA population.

My guess is that most of the "Other denominations" practise submersion as baptism and have a symbolic supper meal of bread and non-alcoholic red juice that they call the Lord's supper.

Wouldn't a lot of these Baptist and Baptist like churches be in the "fringe" that you mentioned?

 

[MennoSota]

When it was said by the leaders of what is called the Radical Reformation that the sacraments which the church had practiced since the time of the Apostles were not important as channels of Grace, something had to be conjured up as an excuse for those people to continue to go through the motions of administering them.

I think you are onto something when you question the idea of them being not important but, well, they are important...sort of.

But it has to be remembered that this is the position taken by only an extremist fringe of the Reformation that was reviled as nuts by mainline Protestants and as heretical by Catholics. Most Protestants retained the two most obvious sacraments that clearly were instituted by Christ.



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Unfortunately for you, we don't read of the alchemy being practiced by the Apostles. We read about baptism and communion in the early church, but neither was practiced as mystical like the Roman and EO church has practiced them. Both turned the sacraments into political fear mongering designed to keep the populace at bay. Thankfully the ability to read the Bible gave people the opportunity to see how evil the two churches have acted in abusing baptism and communion. The Lutheran Church, not knowing any better, followed the same power struggle and adopted similarily bad ideas bent on control. Their political dominance was shorter lived and restricted in scope, but still abusive of baptism and communion as a control mechanism.
The thing the anabaptists got right was the separation of church and state so that baptism and communion we're no longer used and abused as a power trip to control the masses. Baptism and communion were restored back to their original purpose and the abusive churches attempted to physically kill the anabaptists in fear they were losing power over the people.

 

[Albion]

Who is this fringe? In the USA the largest non-Catholic denomination is the Southern Baptists after them is the United Methodists followed by American Baptist Churches (USA), Churches of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ...

Well, that's quite a diverse group you've named there. The term (Radical Reformation) is used to refer to the Anabaptist types.

Wouldn't a lot of these Baptist and Baptist like churches be in the "fringe" that you mentioned?

The Baptists are relatives of the Reformation-era Anabaptists and Puritans, but not identical to them.

 

[Albion]

Okay, what shall we say about Confirmation? It is practiced in the Protestant churches but not as a sacrament; and it is considered to be a sacrament by the Catholic churches, but as a sacrament, there is hardly any reference to it in Scripture, let alone any instituting of a ceremony by Christ. And no physical elements?

 

[MoreCoffee]

Okay, what shall we say about Confirmation? It is practiced in the Protestant churches but not as a sacrament; and it is considered to be a sacrament by the Catholic churches, but as a sacrament, there is hardly any reference to it in Scripture, let alone any instituting of a ceremony by Christ. And no physical elements?

The physical elements are oil for anointing, laying on hands, and audible vocal prayer.

 

[Albion]

Right. Chrism. And the laying on of hands is usually made to be one of the physical elements, just as with Holy Orders.

It is the absence of a clear statement or act of institution by Christ that poses the bigger problem (in the view of some people).

 

[MennoSota]

Okay, what shall we say about Confirmation? It is practiced in the Protestant churches but not as a sacrament; and it is considered to be a sacrament by the Catholic churches, but as a sacrament, there is hardly any reference to it in Scripture, let alone any instituting of a ceremony by Christ. And no physical elements?

Confirmation has no biblical root. It is not commissioned by God. It may act as a denominational teaching element, but it does nothing to secure one's spirit with God.