The "What" and "Why" of "Sacraments"

[Albion]

Almost every Christian church or denomination acknowledges some Sacraments, but the matter is usually unclear to the average church member. He or she simply participates in what the church puts before them.

What makes any ritual be a Sacrament? How many are there and how would we know?

 

[NewCreation435]

The first definition I saw online of sacrament was this one
a Christian rite (such as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sacrament

For most Baptist there are two Baptism and the Lord's Supper

 

[Resources]

Almost every Christian church or denomination acknowledges some Sacraments, but the matter is usually unclear to the average church member. He or she simply participates in what the church puts before them.

What makes any ritual be a Sacrament? How many are there and how would we know?

That I am aware of, the Roman, the Anglican, Orthodox, Coptic believe in Sacraments. Most protestant churches do not believe in sacraments ( they reject them) but they certainly have rituals.

What makes a Sacrament more than just a ritual, is the fact that we believe that by practicing a Sacrament, a grace is imparted in the process.

Protestants, because of their rejection of the RC church, will hard pressed to accept that by celebrating a ritual any grace can be imparted.

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[Albion]

The first definition I saw online of sacrament was this one
a Christian rite (such as baptism or the Eucharist) that is believed to have been ordained by Christ and that is held to be a means of divine grace or to be a sign or symbol of a spiritual reality
from https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sacrament

For most Baptist there are two Baptism and the Lord's Supper

I agree that "ordained (instituted) by Christ" is generally taken to be the key but not sole criterion. So then we have to ask how that applies or doesn't apply in each one of the Sacraments claimed by any particular church.

 

[Albion]

That I am aware of, the Roman, the Anglican, Orthodox, Coptic believe in Sacraments. Most protestant churches do not believe in sacraments ( they reject them) but they certainly have rituals.

What makes a Sacrament more than just a ritual, is the fact that we believe that by practicing a Sacrament, a grace is imparted in the process.

Protestants, because of their rejection of the RC church, will hard pressed to accept that by celebrating a ritual any grace can be imparted.

It is safe to say that most Protestant churches accept two sacraments. How they define them of course is something else, and that is part of what I was inquiring into with this thread.

 

[Resources]

It is safe to say that most Protestant churches accept two sacraments. How they define them of course is something else, and that is part of what I was inquiring into with this thread.

The do not accept Sacraments. They celebrate the ritual of baptism and of the Lors Supper. To the vast majority of them, it is just symbolic in nature. To most of the baptism is more important than the Lord's Super.

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[MoreCoffee]

Many denominations have no sacraments; in the place of sacraments those denominations have "ordinances" or something else that more or less corresponds to baptism and the Lord's supper though some denominations have neither baptism nor the Lord's supper (the Salvation Army, for example).

One cannot make just "any ritual" into a sacrament of the Church but one can call just about anything a sacrament if one has a mind to.

There are seven sacraments and the faithful know it from the teaching of the Catholic Church. Those who are separated from the Catholic Church may have a different count and different sources for their count.

 

[Josiah]

Lutheran


Lutherans are “sacramental” (as are Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Anglican Christians). Understanding such requires a solid understanding of the concepts of God as love and God as the active one, that God blesses us.


“Sacrament” is a theological term not used in the Bible but used by Christians to refer loosely to any “means of grace.” A “means of grace” is whatever GOD uses to bring faith, blessings and power into our lives - a means to bless. When the Gospel message of the Bible is preached or read or sung or told – it becomes a “tool” of God, something God can use to GIVE us the “gift of faith” and to guide and empower and bless our lives. Yes, our reading or listening or singing involves some “work” on our part but that’s not the point – GOD is using this like a carpenter using a tool to create something beautiful. While MANY things can be “means of grace” in this loose sense (Lutherans may speak of many things as "sacramental"), historically Christians have especially referenced Word (the Gospel) and Sacraments as the “Means of Grace.” They are “tools in the hands of the Carpenter” for the granting and strengthening of faith and life.


In and of themselves, they are rather powerless and benign. Like a hammer just lying there. But place that hammer in the hands of a skilled carpenter and GREAT things happen! In the same way, the Bible may seem only like words, Baptism only like water, the Eucharist only like bread and wine. Ah, but they are in the hands of the Carpenter! Who wishes to BLESS us!


In the past 500 years or so, a small minority of Christians have replaced this concept of God blessing us with and opposite concept: “Ordinances”. The focus is placed on man, where man is the active and critical factor, the emphasis becomes less on God’s unmerited grace and mercy and more on OUR “obedience” and God’s reward of that, thus the redefinition as “Ordinances” (not something God does for us in love but something we do for God in obedience in hopes of reward); OUR jumping through hoops in hopes of pleasing God. Some Christians “talk past” each other on these points because of this different understanding of God and His grace/mercy.


“Sacrament” is a theological term; we define it as especially something instituted by Christ that utilizes some physical means in order to offer or seal His gift of faith and His power in our lives. Some define the word a bit differently. Lutherans don’t dogmatically number them, but historically we’ve spoken especially of two: Baptism and Holy Communion (they "fit" OUR definition) but we just don't dogmatically number them (that's mostly a Calvinist vs. Catholic thing). In the Small Catechism, Luther himself wrote "there are two Sacraments" but this is understood as "at least two" not dogmatically limited to two."



- Josiah




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[Albion]

The do not accept Sacraments.

Yes, they do. I don't know where you picked up your misinformation, but they do. There are, in fact, only two denominations that are generally recognized as not having any sacraments: the Quakers and the Salvation Army (not counting whatever stray non-denominational assemblies and religions that are at best marginally Christian might be somewhere out there).

They celebrate the ritual of baptism and of the Lors Supper. To the vast majority of them, it is just symbolic in nature. To most of the baptism is more important than the Lord's Super.

Your personal opinion, then, is that unless their definition of a sacrament squares with yours, its not a sacrament. Got it.

And the same applies to this reply by another poster:

Many denominations have no sacraments; in the place of sacraments those denominations have "ordinances" or something else that more or less corresponds to baptism and the Lord's supper....

So the answer there is two. The question of the thread does not concern itself with each denominations preferred terminology.






.

 

[Resources]

Yes, they do. I don't know where you picked up your misinformation, but they do. There are, in fact, only two denominations that are generally recognized as not having any sacraments: the Quakers and the Salvation Army (not counting whatever stray non-denominational assemblies and religions that are at best marginally Christian might be somewhere out there).


Your personal opinion, then, is that unless their definition of a sacrament squares with yours, its not a sacrament. Got it.

And the same applies to this reply by another poster:



So the answer there is two. The question of the thread does not concern itself with each denominations preferred terminology.






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Unless they belive that the celebration of the ritual imparts grace, they do not believe it is a Sacrament. Sacrament makes holy. Ritual is just an act?

Do you belive the celebration of a ritual can impart grace?

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[Josiah]

Unless they belive that the celebration of the ritual imparts grace, they do not believe it is a Sacrament. Sacrament makes holy. Ritual is just an act?

Do you belive the celebration of a ritual can impart grace?

While I confess Scripture and some Christians speak in way that COULD be so understood, actually the DOING does nothing.... God is USING it. Read below...

“Sacrament” is a theological term not used in the Bible but used by Christians to refer loosely to any “means of grace.” A “means of grace” is whatever GOD uses to bring faith, blessings and power into our lives - a means to bless. When the Gospel message of the Bible is preached or read or sung or told – it becomes a “tool” of God, something God can use to GIVE us the “gift of faith” and to guide and empower and bless our lives. Yes, our reading or listening or singing involves some “work” on our part but that’s not the point – GOD is using this like a carpenter using a tool to create something beautiful. While MANY things can be “means of grace” in this loose sense (Lutherans may speak of many things as "sacramental"), historically Christians have especially referenced Word (the Gospel) and Sacraments as the “Means of Grace.” They are “tools in the hands of the Carpenter” for the granting and strengthening of faith and life.


In and of themselves, they are rather powerless and benign. Like a hammer just lying there. But place that hammer in the hands of a skilled carpenter and GREAT things happen! In the same way, the Bible may seem only like words, Baptism only like water, the Eucharist only like bread and wine. Ah, but they are in the hands of the Carpenter! Who wishes to BLESS us!


.

SOME Christians believe that the proclaimation of the Gospel CAN be used by the Holy Spirit to convey faith.... but is this a HUMAN work, BECAUSE a human performed the good work of reading the Bible.... accomplished because black ink on a white page has that POWER? Well... property speaking.... GOD is using those words to do HIS work, convey HIS blessing. This is how it "works" with "Means of Grace" many believe. Luther stressed that the water in Baptism and the bread and wine in Communion do nothing... God does everything THROUGH them. Like a carpenter picking up a hammer and building some wonderful creation... the hammer didn't do this, the Carpenter did using the hammer (which is just an inanimate object).

I hope that furthers understanding (if not agreement)




.

 

[Resources]

While I confess Scripture and some Christians speak in way that COULD be so understood, actually the DOING does nothing.... God is USING it. Read below...




SOME Christians believe that the proclaimation of the Gospel CAN be used by the Holy Spirit to convey faith.... but is this a HUMAN work, BECAUSE a human performed the good work of reading the Bible.... accomplished because black ink on a white page has that POWER? Well... property speaking.... GOD is using those words to do HIS work, convey HIS blessing. This is how it "works" with "Means of Grace" many believe. Luther stressed that the water in Baptism and the bread and wine in Communion do nothing... God does everything THROUGH them. Like a carpenter picking up a hammer and building some wonderful creation... the hammer didn't do this, the Carpenter did using the hammer (which is just an inanimate object).

I hope that furthers understanding (if not agreement)




.

So if a person come accross a flower, and upon admiring its beauty, the person comes to acept Christ, that flower is a sacrament?

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[Lamb]

So if a person come accross a flower, and upon admiring its beauty, the person comes to acept Christ, that flower is a sacrament?

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No because it was not instituted by God to deliver any benefits. And how would a flower point to Christ who died anyway without the person hearing the message of the Good News? It can't.

 

[Josiah]

So if a person come accross a flower, and upon admiring its beauty, the person comes to acept Christ, that flower is a sacrament?

As I posted (see post # 8), anything COULD be "sacramental" (doesn't thus make it a SACRAMENT -that depends on one's definition). Yes, you give a silly example, but the Scriptures DO say "the heavens declare the glory of God." I suppose God COULD use the stunning experience of His Creation as a tool.... But just as the flower didn't DO anything (God did)... just as the LOOKING while a human activity also didn't do anything, if GOD uses this as a means to bring blessings to us, then yes, it could be seen as "sacramental."


Just to run with a kind of silly point of yours (but not ENTIRELY without value, lol).... from the time was about 6 years old, I have LOVED to hike. I was in Boy Scouts and then Explorers... and I continued this through all my years of college and grad school. Not so much now (life being busy). And while it had nothing to do with COMING to faith, I vividly remember MANY times, especially up in the big mountains of eastern and northern California - in Yosemite and around - coming across a scene that just blew me away, and I recall literally bursting out in praise to God as I stood in the wonder of His Creation. I gotta admit, seeing my son being born was like that, too. God CAN use things to bless. Even flowers, I suppose. But then I'm really not into telling God what He cannot do.




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[Resources]

As I posted (see post # 8), anything COULD be "sacramental" (doesn't thus make it a SACRAMENT -that depends on one's definition). Yes, you give a silly example, but the Scriptures DO say "the heavens declare the glory of God." I suppose God COULD use the stunning experience of His Creation as a tool.... But just as the flower didn't DO anything (God did)... just as the LOOKING while a human activity also didn't do anything, if GOD uses this as a means to bring blessings to us, then yes, it could be seen as "sacramental."


Just to run with a kind of silly point of yours (but not ENTIRELY without value, lol).... from the time was about 6 years old, I have LOVED to hike. I was in Boy Scouts and then Explorers... and I continued this through all my years of college and grad school. Not so much now (life being busy). And while it had nothing to do with COMING to faith, I vividly remember MANY times, especially up in the big mountains of eastern and northern California - in Yosemite and around - coming across a scene that just blew me away, and I recall literally bursting out in praise to God as I stood in the wonder of His Creation. I gotta admit, seeing my son being born was like that, too. God CAN use things to bless. Even flowers, I suppose. But then I'm really not into telling God what He cannot do.




.

My silly example was trying to make the point that a sacrament is more than just a tool that a person can stumble upon.

A Sacrament is purposeful, it is ordained and distinct in nature.

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[Albion]

My silly example was trying to make the point that a sacrament is more than just a tool that a person can stumble upon.

No one needed to make that point, however.

A Sacrament is purposeful, it is ordained and distinct in nature.

Very well then, define it for us. So far we have that it is a ceremony, etc. ordained or instituted by Christ, that conveys grace, and utilizes physical matter/objects.

 

[Josiah]

My silly example was trying to make the point that a sacrament is more than just a tool that a person can stumble upon.

Okay. But then it seems you didn't read my post (# 8). And totally missed the whole point about "tools in the hands of the Carpenter" and the distinction made between sacramental and Sacrament.

Oh, and Creation CAN be used by God to bless..... I've had that happen many times. I wouldn't call it a Sacrament but it could be seen as sacramental.



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[Albion]

Could we take what we already have discussed and identify any or all possible sacraments?

 

[Resources]

Could we take what we already have discussed and identify any or all possible sacraments?

Great question? Any takers?

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[MoreCoffee]

Many denominations have no sacraments; in the place of sacraments those denominations have "ordinances" or something else that more or less corresponds to baptism and the Lord's supper though some denominations have neither baptism nor the Lord's supper (the Salvation Army, for example).

One cannot make just "any ritual" into a sacrament of the Church but one can call just about anything a sacrament if one has a mind to.

There are seven sacraments and the faithful know it from the teaching of the Catholic Church. Those who are separated from the Catholic Church may have a different count and different sources for their count.

So the answer there is two. The question of the thread does not concern itself with each denominations preferred terminology.

It was unclear that the last part in your message shown above was a response to my post also shown above rather than a part of one of Resource's posts. Of course your response edited my reply and removed the words though some denominations have neither baptism nor the Lord's supper (the Salvation Army, for example).

That slight of hand edit was the only way your post could pretend to be adding something informative about denominations that have no ordinances or sacraments at all.

I trust that readers of the thread will take the time to read better and more fully than your post's edited quote.